Episode 3: Transforming Debt Into Opportunity

Cara Lunsford (00:00.174)
How are you? I'm great.

Allie (00:01.174)
I'm good, how are you?

Allie (00:05.079)
It's far back. I know I haven't seen you since Nurse Boss, that first Nurse Boss Summit.

Cara Lunsford (00:10.572)
a long time ago. Which one, which one was that? Because? Yeah, was that before that right before the pandemic, right? Like in 2020?

Allie (00:11.744)
Yeah.

Allie (00:16.107)
That was the one in Raleigh. That was before the pandemic. Yeah, it was actually in March, or end of February. Yeah.

Cara Lunsford (00:27.256)
February, yeah, I was getting on the plane and you know, these people were, some people were wearing masks and other people weren't wearing masks and I was kind of like, should I be wearing a mask? And I didn't. I didn't get it. didn't, unfortunately, I never got COVID in the first wave. Not got.

Allie (00:42.849)
Yeah.

Allie (00:47.158)
Yeah.

Allie (00:52.535)
I didn't get it until 2022 and then I got it like three times and they were all terrible.

Cara Lunsford (00:59.734)
Yeah, I had it twice and the first time was pretty bad. Second time, not so bad, but I say I got the cron. I got the Omicron. it's a subset of the vid. So how have you been, Allie?

Allie (01:09.407)
Yeah. I'll take my glasses. gosh. Good. There's been like a lot of changes. So.

Cara Lunsford (01:23.734)
A lot of changes. Okay, so for people who don't know, and I don't know how many people don't know about you, but debt-free nurse.

Allie (01:24.983)
Yeah.

Cara Lunsford (01:37.326)
And I'm really excited. Of course I say that. I always say that in people. I'm sure the listeners are like, Kara's always excited. She's never not excited. But I am. I'm legit excited to talk to you. A, because I struggled with a lot of debt. And you're gonna laugh. I've been a nurse for 17 years. I still haven't paid off my student loans.

Allie (02:04.631)
I mean, that's a lot of people. And before the last few weeks, I would have said, you know, go ahead, don't do it. things that are happening in the last few weeks have just been...

Cara Lunsford (02:19.47)
Not Not great. Not great.

Allie (02:19.787)
Not good, yeah. People's payments like tripling, like.

Yeah.

Cara Lunsford (02:28.344)
I don't even know what to say. I know. You know what's so funny is that, okay, we're gonna jump right in. People are gonna be like, who is she? First of all, do you go by Allie Hall or Allison Hall? What's your preference? All right, we got Allie Hall here. Dead free nurse. So.

Allie (02:36.875)
That's fine. Where did they go? Yeah.

Allie (02:44.447)
I go by Allie

Cara Lunsford (02:52.884)
Go ahead and do a little bit of an intro on yourself. Just like, how long have you been a nurse? How did you get into, you know, financial responsibility? And and then we'll kind of dig in.

Allie (03:06.625)
Cool. I'll try to make it short. I always say that and then it's like really long. So I'll try to make it short. So I am actually a second generation nurse. My mom is also a nurse. But I went through college. I swam at San Diego State. Said I was never gonna be a nurse. Didn't like blood, like poop, nothing. I told my mom I would never be a nurse. I was like, no, that's not for me. So I got my...

degree in exercise science that I was gonna go to like PA school or PT school. And my last semester of college, was like, cleaning up somebody's throw up. I don't know if I've said this ever on a podcast, but like at a party and I was like, wow, I could do this like totally fine. And I had some friends going to nursing school and I'm like, if they could do it, like so could I. And so I was just weighing the pros and cons of like PA school versus PT school and like the price.

And for the amount of student loans that I would have had to take out for PT or PA school, I because I lived in Southern California, so a lot of the schools were around $100,000 at least for a two-year, three-year degree. So I was like, it makes more financial sense, and I think I can do it to go to nursing school. And so six months later, I got into Western Governors, which was there. It was basically all online, but...

We had clinical and lab and everything at a site in Orange County. And I loved it. I thought I was gonna do pediatrics right out the gate. That was not my story. So I have been a nurse now for over 10 years. Spent most of my time in ICU. The first four years were adult ICU, mostly cardiac. And then I almost quit nursing. And due to some bullying and...

just being severely burnt out and not thinking it was what I thought it should be, but also not following my passion of always wanting to do pediatrics. And so I finally bit the bullet and was like, I either need to go to pediatrics or I need to quit nursing. And I got into the PICU around that time and was in the PICU for, at a couple of different facilities for like at least four or five, four-ish years, four-ish years. And...

Allie (05:26.871)
than have done some other stuff since. Now I work from home and do pediatrics, but it's for primary care, and also teach nursing school. So I try to make my nursing journey short. And I love teaching. I'm in my master's in education, so I'm back in school, and hopefully we'll be able to teach more than I'm teaching now. But for my finances, so I very early on,

So I moved to North Carolina from Southern California, was making $21 an hour. Nobody on social media believes that I made $21 an hour in 2015, but I did. It was 21.20, which is less than I made as a CNA in California. So I was very not prepared to be 26 and living on my own and making $21 an hour.

After six months, I started working four and five shifts a week. And so by year one, I was severely, severely burnt out. But I had no money to show for it because I hadn't changed my financial habits at all whatsoever. I was still going out, I was still traveling, was still doing things, still putting things on credit cards. I'd already had credit card debt from moving across the country. And so I got very into Dave Ramsey and that very specific, very hardcore

Don't spend any money. Don't do anything. But one thing about me is I have always loved health and wellness. I've always been into fitness. I did bodybuilding while I was in nursing school. I competed in Olympic weightlifting. And I was like, that's the one thing I'm not gonna give up. So while I did that very strict regimen of personal finance, I was able to pay off $15,000 of credit card debt, but I also never gave up, you know.

healthy eating, I still bought more expensive groceries, I still paid for a coach, I still went to a more expensive gym. So I was like, there's gotta be a better way to do this. And so went through a lot of mindset stuff, read a couple books on mindset and personal finance, and I was like, there's gotta be a way to merge these. it was before financial coaches were coming out at this time. And so actually moved.

Allie (07:46.837)
been with my ex-husband and around that time was when I got even worse burnt out from nursing and that was around the time that I wanted to quit. So I hired Kat and when she was doing her first mentee program, I was like in her first group and she was like, I think you have something here. She's like, so I had already started paying down my student loans at this time. I was like, I want to pay them off. I want to do it quickly, but I want to do it in a better, more sustainable way.

So I started doing it for myself. so she was like, I think you have something here. She's like, I don't know anybody else who is as motivated as you and has done it in this way. she's like, mentors are a big thing right now. You should just do that and do financial coaching. And my ex-husband was like, no, no one's ever going to pay you for that. That's stupid. So that's why they're my ex.

So I started doing that and the first thing I ever did was I sold like $50. I was doing budgets and debt payoff plans and like people loved them. And the reason why I was able to was because I started sharing my journey on social media. So I was taking screenshots and you can go back on my Instagram and look from like, I think it was 2017, 2018, when I would screenshot every payment that I made to my student loans and like people loved it. Like they were like, this is so cool. You know, I've never seen this before.

So it's kind of ahead of its time and that's when I got really passionate about it. And then fast forward, trying to make this a little bit faster. I got divorced.

Cara Lunsford (09:23.128)
There's no rush. There's no rush. You're the guest. I'm here. We're here to hear your story.

Allie (09:27.862)
No.

I liked, but I want to make it meaningful for people too, so I want to be able to give them some nuggets as well. So fast forward to 2020, I started speaking, really was like coming into my own of like my business. I had probably helped at least 100 nurses by this point. I was having 15 to 20 people in each group. The group was running four times a year. And then I was also having one-on-ones.

Cara Lunsford (09:34.04)
Yeah.

Allie (09:59.051)
So helping a lot of nurses with their budget, with how to do a debt payoff plan, things like that. so late 2020, November, I got was told that my ex-husband didn't want to be married anymore. It came out of nowhere. And so probably the next three months were three to six months were pretty difficult. I was trying to figure out if I wanted to

stay where I was, I loved my job at the time, if I wanted to move back to Raleigh, or if I wanted to move home. The one thing that really saved me was I did have a lot of savings at that time. I had been saving, I had just paid off my car, my student loans were paid off, and so I really have me being financially sound in the structure there for me to not.

completely collapse, I was able to collapse mentally, but everything else was taken care of. So I ended up living somewhere for pretty cheap the first few months and was able to kind of get my bearings. But that made me very, very passionate about women and finances, because I was always, I would have men ask me if I was taking men clients, and I'm like, I don't think the, like my...

My way is the way that you want to be talked to about money. was very like mindset and money and just it didn't resonate with a lot of males. So really I'd only worked with women and it just made me even more passionate about why women should be financially literate and this is such an important topic. So that's kind of that was like the launching board of yeah.

Cara Lunsford (11:46.638)
It's okay to have a brand. I think sometimes people think that you have to, I understand inclusiveness and equality and stuff like that, and I appreciate all of that. But I also think it's okay to have a brand. And if your brand is that you curate and support women with financial health.

then that's your brand and that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that.

Allie (12:20.791)
And it took me by surprise because it was one male in specific and he was like, you are like sexist, like I can't believe you don't work with men. I'm just like, women have been left out of the picture for so long and there's been male specific financial education for so long that like why can't women have this? Like it was just, it was such a weird message to get. And I was like, well you're not really my ideal client anyway so I'm gonna pass.

They want you to be angry at me to hire you.

Cara Lunsford (12:51.182)
Yeah, because that's how you're going to get in, right? You're going to bully your way in. That'll work. I think if anything, you're like doubling down and going, thank you for making me feel good about my decision.

Allie (12:55.614)
Yeah.

Allie (13:02.341)
Not for me.

Yes.

Cara Lunsford (13:07.894)
If I was on the fence, I'm not anymore. So yeah, think that that's think that's great. And I think that there's all kinds of things that are designed for men and there's all things that are there's things that are designed for women and there's things for people who, you know, identify in other ways, you know, non-binary. So it's it's it's OK. It's there's nothing wrong with that. And maybe the listeners, some of you might disagree, but that's OK. You have a right to

disagree. So that being said, I think it's a fascinating journey and I think that everything that happens in our lives

puts us, I believe, on a path. And those are the hard things, the easy things. I so rarely use the word bad. I oftentimes use the word hard because I think there's stuff that's difficult. There's stuff that where your life kind of feels like it's moving along really and coasting along easily. But the hard stuff is really oftentimes what puts us on our path and puts us where we're meant to be. So even your husband deciding

that he didn't want to be married anymore. That's a really hard thing to go through. I went through something similar. My wife and I separated for a year. She didn't she didn't want to be with me anymore. Imagine that. I mean, really, she's also the producer and editor of this podcast, so she's going to listen to this and go.

Allie (14:40.776)
I mean, come on.

Cara Lunsford (14:50.956)
Yeah, how could how could that have been? But that's that's the thing is that many times. The things that just seem tragic. Are the things that open our eyes, make us pivot, make changes and all of these things, and and you, I notice that you you also listen to yourself as you were starting to burn out, you were you said I.

I had a passion for pediatrics. I need to follow that passion. That's also self-awareness, right? Like being self-aware and being in tune with what you need. And so all things that it really sounds like you did, which got you here, which is amazing.

Allie (15:39.253)
And I think just like following that too, I was really into coaching and I think I did that for a very long time. And it took me a while to kind of step back and say, my mental health isn't very good. I can't help people because mental health and money is tied so much. I had no idea that so many people who have bipolar,

depression struggle with impulse spending and that's a known thing. And so a lot of people, me talking about impulse spending, it brought a lot of people who had depression, anxiety, bipolar. And I'm like, I don't have the means to deal with this because I'm not a therapist. And I blatantly said that when I started too as well, like, so I wasn't marketing or misleading people.

But it took a toll on my own mental health too and I was like, I can't take these clients at this point because these are the people that need the help, but I can't show up for myself, so I can't show up for other people. And so I think that was another big pivot that I started doing more podcasts and creating my own podcasts and doing more speaking engagements and things like that. And I think in the last year, something I had put out was that,

I want to get into more nursing schools and hospitals and things like that to speak and talk about this, especially mindset around money and just how it impacts our mental health. The trauma that we've had around money, because I got Trauma of Money certified a couple years ago and that was a really cool thing. So just learning how to pivot and looking and doing the introspection, saying what do I actually really want to do?

And instead of throwing it all away, was like, well, how can I help more people? And this was kind of the journey to be able to do that.

Cara Lunsford (17:34.19)
So what have you found when you first sit down with people? How do you open with them? What do you say?

Allie (17:45.985)
So a lot of times if they're a client, they've already done some pre-work. They've watched some videos. have a little list that they need to go through. Because you don't want to come in talking about money to never having looked at what's going on. Because I think that's the biggest thing. An issue that people have is they'll create a budget, but they'll have no idea where their money is going. So then they get frustrated and they create this budget off of something that is not...

remotely what their budget should look like. So I do open up with talking about how they feel about money, maybe some of the experiences that they've had surrounding money. So I know one thing for me that has come up and was a sticking point with my mom for a while because I was in a single parent household was, and I don't actually know if I've ever shared this, but I went to a private...

Christian middle school and my my parents got divorced I got pulled out because my parents could not afford it anymore and then We moved into a hotel we lived in a hotel For a couple months while I was going to that private school So like think of like very very rich people and we were living in a hotel Not being able to cook food So that really impacted kind of how I felt about money My dad whenever I would ask

how much money he made. I even remember being like really young asking this just to be inquisitive and ask like, you know, like what jobs make what money? Just being a kid. And I was told it was rude to ask people how much they made. So no wonder why we as nurses don't like talking about it. And now the older nurses still say that same thing of like, why are you sharing your salary online? Or like, why do you think it's a good thing to do that? Well, so that other people can feel good about.

what they make. So I think just starting the conversation about what things impacted the way that you feel about money now is the baseline thing that you need to go in with because if you know all that, then you can give yourself a little bit more grace as to why you impulse spend or why you feel the way that you feel about money. So that's really kind of the first step. Yeah.

Cara Lunsford (20:09.71)
That's so interesting. Well, first of all, I love the vulnerability of sharing something so intimate about being in, first of all, middle school sucks, sucks. I mean, it's just terrible place. mean, kids are mean. And then you put, add onto that, that now you are living in a hotel because your parents are separated, you know, and that's...

Allie (20:20.223)
Yeah.

Cara Lunsford (20:36.76)
There's so much embarrassment and shame and not that there should be, but I mean, who am I to say like what should or should happen? But like, I think that that happens, right? I think that we feel that way, even if we don't need to feel that way. And shame is a hard thing. Shame, embarrassment, know, all of that is really, really tough.

And so just so grateful for you sharing something so so vulnerable. I would say just to to meet you there.

As a kid, I always felt like I knew that my dad worked like two jobs, even though he didn't really have to. He worked two jobs because he was a workaholic. He really was. just, loved working and he loved what he did. And I think it was his identity. He felt...

that that was where he could be good at something and being a provider was something that was important to him. But my mom, who grew up in the projects,

was and had a single mom for most. You know, there was some different men who had come in and out of her life. like my but my mom lived in the projects and didn't have a lot of money. So she was very frugal. So even though we lived in a nice area in El Segundo, we lived near the beach and and we had a house and cars and you know. But my mom was very, very frugal.

Cara Lunsford (22:21.104)
And so if I wanted something kind of nicer like that, like other kids had, or I wanted a brand that other kids had, no, we were shopping at Mervin's in the clearance section for sure. And it was frowned upon, I think a lot by my mom to want things, to have things. So I think as I got older, sometimes I

to be like, if I want that thing, I'm going to get it.

Allie (22:54.017)
So you either go the opposite direction or you follow them. Like you either rebel or you go...

Cara Lunsford (22:57.398)
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, clearly, I think I tend to lean towards the rebellion side of things in most areas of my life. Like, don't tell me I can't have tattoos at work. I'm going to have all kinds of tattoos and I'm going to have them below my sleeve. I'm kind of always kind of pushing the limit a little bit. But I definitely think that that's where I tended to.

I didn't care so much about money. was just like, want to have, if I want that thing, I want it, you know, and it did get me into trouble in a lot of ways. Like I've got, I've kind of waxed and wane between paying off my debt and then getting back in debt and then paying off my debt and getting back in debt. So that's the mental side of it for me.

Allie (23:53.131)
Yeah, because if you don't change your relationship with money, you're going to keep doing the same thing over and over. And that's what I found with a lot of programs that were just based on, you know, pay this debt off and like thinking that it's just this negative thing when there are so many reasons why people have debt. You know, people lose their jobs, people go through divorces, they have life events, you get sick. And instead of thinking of it negatively, something that I like to tell

people that I work with and then also just I've talked about it on social media is, what did your debt allow you to do? Did it allow you to get through that experience? Did it allow you to take some time off of work? And looking at it in that light instead of thinking it's this negative, shameful, horrible thing because you're much more likely to just be at peace with it and not go back into debt and not have those bad habits that you had before. If you do make the peace with it and you say, you know what?

This will get paid off when it gets paid off. I'm gonna create new habits, better habits, and that's what I'm gonna focus on more than the amount of debt that I have.

Cara Lunsford (24:56.558)
Yes, yeah, you know for the first time, honestly, in, I'm 45.

for the first time in 45 years. And I hats off to my wife because she's really the one that was like, we're putting money over in this account that we can't see. she, so I would put it in the joint, she'd move it. And it's like, if I can't see it, it's not there. And you really hats off to her because I, it's not that I would necessarily just go like, we're gonna blow it, no. But if it's there and I can

Allie (25:20.791)
It's not there, yep.

Cara Lunsford (25:33.152)
can see it and something comes up especially like it's not really things for me it's not really things it's experiences case in point my sister contacts me and she says grandma wants to go on an Alaskan cruise with the whole family she's 96 years old this may never happen again and I'm like

really like I don't have that money put aside. I haven't. I'm like, oh, but how am I what I'm going to say I can't go. I'm not going to I'm not going to go on the family reunion Alaskan cruise with my grandmother, who's 96, you know. So, of course, I'm like, well, break out the credit card and put seven thousand dollars on it, you know, to take all three of us on on this cruise. So like I think that sometimes that's what

happens for me where it's a bit of, it's some guilt, it's some FOMO, what if this opportunity never comes again and I gotta take advantage of it now. That's where I get stuck.

Allie (26:44.791)
I think that's a lot of nurses because what do we see all the time? We see death, we see suffering, we see the worst of the worst. And so I think a lot of times we have that mindset of like, it could all end tomorrow, so what's the point of saving? And I do feel like that's a very common theme in the nursing profession and world.

Cara Lunsford (27:03.938)
That's so interesting you say that I I had never really put it together that I probably some of that I probably have that mindset a little bit around. also worked with pediatrics, did pediatric oncology. That's people really dying very early a lot of times. And I do think I have a little bit of that mindset of I can't take it with me and I don't know how long I'm going to be here. So.

But then if I don't put money away, it adds a different stress where I'm like, well, what if something does happen to me and then my family's not taken care of and I don't have anything set aside for them. so this has really become a counseling session just for me, Allie. So just so you know, just for everyone listening, they're like, how did Kara get a free counseling session? did, yeah, I invited you onto the podcast just so that you could give me some free counseling.

Allie (28:00.833)
See, I said I was not a counselor, but it's so true because, that's what people miss so much, and I think that's what set me apart too, and it was why I really wanted to get that Trauma of Money certification, because it's just so interesting the tie between the habits that we have surrounding money and how we feel about money and just our own beliefs, feelings, mindset, all of that. It's just, it's so interesting to me.

Cara Lunsford (28:30.786)
Yeah, sometimes I think I would be so happy if I lived in a barter system. Really.

Allie (28:38.497)
We don't have to worry about anything.

Cara Lunsford (28:40.918)
No, I mean, first of all, it would work really well for like who I am as a person because I am very community oriented and I just like to I feel like I'm very close with all my neighbors all down the street. I'd be like, you know, I'm a nurse, but you're really good at this. So you can do this for me and I'll do this for you. And and and we'll just all coexist like that. And I have chickens and I'll give eggs to my neighbors. And you guys can give me an avocado because you have

avocado tree. don't like so I I also think I would be like so happy just to live like that because there's a part of me that just does not like doesn't really like money either. I I feel like it does bring a level of stress to my life.

Allie (29:29.143)
And I do feel like when people feel like that too, they tend to give it away a lot. Like they don't like to save. They feel really guilty either spending it or they find things that they need to spend it on and they just like shove it all away. So that's also really interesting too is if you feel like you don't really, you feel uncomfortable with money or just feel like you don't jive with it, you gotta make it your friend in order to.

kind of work well with it.

Cara Lunsford (29:59.82)
It's true. You know, I just said to my, because I'm all kind of woo woo.

Allie (30:04.662)
Yep.

Cara Lunsford (30:05.198)
You know, have I very superstitious about things. So I said to my wife the other day, she she gets these checks in the mail that are like for tiny, tiny, tiny amounts of money. Sometimes it's like not even because she gets like royalties for some things like for maybe a music placement somewhere. But sometimes they're ridiculously small, like 48 cents. Something stupid. You're like, I don't even think this check

Allie (30:33.641)
It costed more for the check to get mail.

Cara Lunsford (30:35.278)
It costs more for them to send it and print it than it then it did for the actual check So but then I was sitting around for months and I said, you know I think you have to deposit this because I think when you just let it sit and you don't deposit it You're telling the universe that you don't need money

Allie (30:55.339)
Yep.

Cara Lunsford (30:55.982)
And that's my woo-woo side where I like and I think like the universe is listening and going well I guess you didn't need that 48 cents, so you probably don't need this forty eight hundred dollars that Is sitting out here in the ether waiting to come to you?

Allie (31:08.961)
So that's one thing I learned from Kat too is like, my gosh, this is a funny story. So she would always say like to get really excited when you found a penny or whatever. I don't really care if it's heads up, heads down, doesn't matter to me. So I teach on Sundays clinical and so.

I get really mad every week because they up the parking to $12 and I'm like, I'm already here for 12 hours and I have to pay $12 for parking and I'm teaching these students and it's so dumb. I like go to, every time I go to pay, there's at least one penny on the ground. And every time I pick it up, because I'm like, there's gotta be a reason why there's a penny every time. So, and I get excited. 1199, yep.

Cara Lunsford (31:49.486)
So that you only have to pay $11.99. It's so that...

Allie (31:53.331)
Maybe by the time I'm done teaching this year, I'll have enough pennies to pay for one day of parking, but...

Cara Lunsford (32:00.226)
That'd hilarious.

Allie (32:01.623)
But it is so funny that every time they're just sitting right there, I'm like, all right.

Cara Lunsford (32:06.882)
Yeah, I mean, I don't know if it's just, I mean, you can call it superstitious, you can call it woo woo, you can call it whatever you want. But I think that there's intentionality, right, around why am I avoiding putting this, do I not value it? Do I not think it's enough?

Is it not worth my time? Am I offended by it? know, like, I mean, maybe maybe my wife's just offended by the small amount of money that she got. And so she doesn't want to look at it because she's like, you know, I put a lot of time and effort into that song or whatever that got maybe placed somewhere once in some, you know, B rated movie. And and so she gets this tiny amount of money. But.

That's the psychological component, right? All around, well, how do I feel about this? Why am I not doing this thing? Why am I just letting that sit there?

Allie (33:03.223)
You bring up a good point because this is why a lot of people avoid their finances too. So a lot of times we create these stories in our heads of like what your situation actually looks like. And I like to relate this in my nursing skills to the more you look at it, the better that you're gonna get at it. So like the first time you ever placed an IV, I like to share this story because it is hilarious. We were not allowed to practice IVs on each other.

So when I went home, I asked my stepdad, who I'm very close with, and said, hey, can I put an IV in you? He lays on the bed. I get all ready, I get all excited. Put the IV in. Start jumping up and down all excited because I got the IV in. There's blood dripping everywhere. I haven't taken the tourniquet off, haven't connected anything. I'm like, he's like, are you gonna take this out? Like, there's blood everywhere. Like, you doing? So.

never did that again and got progressively better every time. Also didn't jump for joy every time I got an IV, but you know. So very anxiety panic-ridden the first time you look at your bank account and look at the actual situation, put the numbers on the paper. And a lot of times it's much better than what you actually think it is. And so we sit there and create all these stories in our head, make ourselves anxious. But the more that you sit, you look at it, you write down your numbers, you

take a step each time to create the budget, to pay things down, it gets easier every time, just like the nursing skills do. And so I just think it's just a good kind of thing to relate it to because it's like, you didn't go into doing an IV and be like, okay, I got it and did it with no anxiety at all whatsoever. You were like anxious and scared and sweaty.

Cara Lunsford (34:51.0)
Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. And I would probably feel that way if I started looking at my bank account, because I'm just putting my own shame on myself. know, if I go in there and I look at it and I'm like.

What is all those automatic withdrawals coming out? What are all those 9.99s? What am I paying for? You know, and then I have to try and go find them. I have to find all these like automatic withdrawals to and then.

I'm like, do I really need that thing that I apparently subscribed for? And then do I want to pay for the rocket money or whatever it is to automatically unsubscribe me to a bunch of things? Do I want to subscribe to them so that they can automatically unsubscribe me to a bunch of other things? Or do I just want to? I, yeah.

Allie (35:40.887)
You can do it a lot yourself. mean, racket money is fine, but it's just another subscription to you to... But I mean, there's been times, like one time I found, this was like going on for two years, Best Buy doubled, because I usually buy my phones from them because they're usually cheaper, easier to get them from there, and they have all the carriers. And so...

Cara Lunsford (35:49.612)
Yeah. Yeah.

Allie (36:07.231)
I didn't realize I was paying for double AppleCare through Best Buy for like three years. And so they finally, when I found out, I was like, where is all this coming from? So they actually ended up giving me my money back because they're like, that should have never happened. But it's like, it took me three years to actually figure that out. And I was like, wow, that could have saved me a ton of money. So avoiding costs us a lot.

Cara Lunsford (36:30.456)
Yes. And that's the other thing that I don't do. Like some people say, you know, every day, every day or every week or, you know, every month I go in and I reconcile my account and make sure and I'm like.

I just, I'm like, no, I don't do that. Like, did you get overcharged? Did you get, and I'm like, I know I should. I'm sure I should be like going in here and checking.

Allie (37:00.353)
but it's the avoidance too. so if you, so here's the other thing, if you make it really complicated, you're not gonna wanna do it either. And so I think a lot of people overcomplicate it. And so one, I don't wanna sit in front of a computer for 45 minutes. It's why I don't like QuickBooks. I don't like to reconcile my business bank account. I think it's horrible and I hate it. But I've made my personal finances so much easier and so much more fun that I don't mind taking.

15 minutes every week just to look at things to make sure that the things that are supposed to come out come out, the things that are not supposed to come out don't, so make sure I have all of the things in the correct way that they're supposed to come out.

Cara Lunsford (37:43.554)
How do you make this more fun? Is this like a drinking game? Like, how do you do this? Like you take a every time you.

Allie (37:46.571)
So you can, you can take your, so I always, you can take yourself on a date. So I like to either get a fun drink, I don't really drink much alcohol anymore. So I'll get a fizzy water or I'll get a kombucha or something and I'll just sit down and I'm like, I'll play music or I'll make it fun. And so sometimes I would go to coffee shops and do it and get myself a coffee. And so I think just like,

Being in an environment that feels good to you and knowing that you're doing something that's going to make you less anxious in the long run is super helpful. So I kind of just started doing that once a week and then once a month I'll kind of go through and print my statements and just make sure everything's looking. And I don't re-sign up for things. for things like, what are they called? Subscriptions.

it's really easy to go on your iPhone and double check to see what's going through. And so I always check that at least a couple times a year just to make sure I haven't re-signed up for something or that things aren't coming out. But I've made it pretty automated now to where it's not that hard. So I think getting over that fear and that anxiety at the beginning is the hard part, but once you kind of get it going the way that you...

Cara Lunsford (38:44.034)
Mm-hmm.

Allie (39:12.971)
feels good to you and makes sense to you. That's why I don't subscribe to any type of budgeting. I think budgets are different for each person and so I don't think there's one right way for people to budget. I think some people do really well with apps. Some people do really well with pen and paper. Some people do well with spreadsheets. I'm not very good at making spreadsheets and so I've just never done it.

But I know people do really well with them. I do pen and paper and then print out statements and just make sure that everything looks okay. And then I've used apps before to kind of just double check to make sure nothing else is. It's just a quick way to do that. But I think there's not one size fits all for any type of budgeting.

Cara Lunsford (39:55.97)
Yeah, you know, it's interesting because I have this dilemma, this conflict within myself because there's this part of me that believes that if you believe in abundance, then you will have abundance, right? If you believe in scarcity, then you will.

you'll have scarcity. And again, this is a little like because I'm a little woo woo, maybe a lot woo woo. And that I feel like, OK, well, if I I budget, is that me believing in scarcity? Is that me not believing in abundance? OK, like so this is like a little you're looking into my mind and going, she's a little nutty. But like, go ahead.

Allie (40:38.071)
So, I love this. Yes. Yes. No. So, I think a lot of people take this too far where they're like, I believe in abundance and so I can just spend the way that I want to spend. And I've done that before and I'm like, well, I just have to believe things are coming in. But you also have to be like a good steward and to show that you are good with your money so that more will come in. And so I think there's a fine line that you need to kind of

stay on to where you're not over obsessing about your money, but you're also taking care of it and being a good steward of it and saving it and investing where you're supposed to and not over saving, also there's just a fine balance of like, so I think all in all.

you have to look at what your goals are and what things that actually bring you value. So when I'm spending on things that I value, I feel really good about that. But I also feel like more money comes in because I'm doing things that I like, I'm happier, my mental health is better, and I'm not so focused on things and what other people tell me to spend money on. So.

For me, the things that I value are like my health and wellness, kind of what I talked about before. I love working out. So that's something I always spend money on, and it's something I always have enough for. And so believing that I have enough for the things that I value is really important.

Cara Lunsford (42:09.313)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I definitely value experiences over things. And I find that I, for the most part, have always had enough money when it comes to how I spend. If I spend from a place of...

Like, it's almost like self-love, right? Like when I spend from a place of this really brings me joy to be able to go on a cruise with my family. And I'm like, I'm gonna pull the trigger. I don't really have as many set aside for this, but.

I can feel that this is good decision for me, for my family, for my extended family too. And sure enough, I ended up, right after that, a client came into town who I'd worked with for 10 years, on and off for 10 years. And oftentimes he'll fly me back and forth. went and picked him up from Switzerland and brought him back.

and he pays me very, well. And ended up being able to like work.

several shifts with him and put was able to put money away was able to totally cover that and plus and so I was like yeah you know what like that's where that kind of reward comes in it's like well what am I paying for now if I had gone out and bought like a Ferrari you know do I you know I first of all I don't need that and I don't want that and and it really that would not bring me joy yeah

Allie (43:46.903)
Mm-hmm.

Allie (43:54.113)
So I think you're telling the universe too that you are spending on things that you're aligned with and that feel really good to you and that money will come back. So also having that trust too, where you don't feel really bad about using a credit card, which I don't think it's a bad thing to do. I don't think debt is bad, but you have to have a good relationship with the debt. So you put the money on the credit card, you believe.

that this is the right thing to do and you know that it's gonna come, I think that's kind of where you can tie both things together and really feel good about spending money too. I think to take it to another level, if you want to do this is, I have always had a travel fund because I love traveling as well. And so I'm going to Iceland at the end of, no, the beginning of April. So it's like a dream trip like me and my mom are gonna go.

And so I keep saving so that when things come up, I don't feel bad about saying yes to them. And so I think doing both of them is like the best thing to do, but I do believe if you feel like more the woo-woo side or the more into the universe, I do think it supports you when you're in alignment.

Cara Lunsford (45:08.93)
Yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely, like checking in with yourself and being like, is this like an impulsive buy? Am I feeling kind of empty inside? And I think that this thing that I'm about to go by is going to somehow fill me up and make me feel whole or make me feel good. And maybe for a minute it does, but that's not going to last long. know, kind of ask maybe having some questions that you ask yourself before you make a purchase. What would you what would you like advice?

Allie (45:37.153)
Yep, yep, so I actually tell people to do this. So there's a couple things that I, so because I like to say that I'm a reformed shopaholic or impulse vendor. So a couple of the questions that I do ask myself before I buy something is like, it a want versus a need? I also make lists of like things that I want versus things that I need and keep it on there so that when I do have the money I can say, you know, I've wanted this before. But one of the big questions,

I ask, especially if I'm trying to figure out if it's in alignment or not, is this purchase aligned with the person that I want to be? So if it's a yes, then I do take that into consideration. I obviously don't do it impulsively, but that's one question I ask. And then I also do, like I talked about earlier, if they're in alignment with my values. Like I have three core values and I have certain things that would be under that core value on

things that would be, I would spend money on in that, under that core value. So as long as they're in alignment with those three, I do feel like those were the times where I felt the best about spending money. And if they weren't in alignment with those three values, then I always felt bad about spending on those types of things.

Cara Lunsford (46:55.084)
Yeah, sometimes when I know that I am just feeling like I want to go out and spend and have like retail therapy, it for me, thrifting has really helped.

Allie (47:11.957)
that's

Cara Lunsford (47:12.194)
A, because I kind of can scratch that itch a little bit, right? Like I can go out, can, and I can feel like, well, it almost feels like a game in a way, because.

If you go to like a regular store, they've got everything in all the different sizes and you're likely to just, you know, buy something because it's in your size and you know, so, but it's different, right? Like when you go thrifting, you don't know what you could, you're not gonna find the thing necessarily.

Allie (47:46.347)
And every time I want to find the one thing, it's never there. I'm like, I'm going in for this thing and it's not there.

Cara Lunsford (47:50.435)
Yeah.

Yeah. And you don't find it. Or if you do find it, it feels very intentional. It feels like, the universe wants me to have this because I went in and I looked for this thing and it was in my size and it was exactly the color. And like I found a pair of shoes that were legit. Six hundred dollar shoes. And they were in my size. And they were 60 bucks. And.

Allie (48:20.065)
That's really good, yeah.

Cara Lunsford (48:22.476)
They were just these awesome Italian leather little short boots that were blue. And I loved them. And I thought, OK, I am buying these because, I felt like it was a total win for me. it felt by design. And at least that's what I told myself. And.

I am self aware enough to know that I can tell myself a story that I want to hear. I, you know, but I don't regret it because I went out there knowing like, I kind of feel like I just want to, I want to treat myself. want to buy, I want to find something that looks good on me or that, and it keeps me like, I know that if I were to go into free people,

Allie (49:15.52)
Mm-hmm.

Cara Lunsford (49:16.302)
I'll find like five things that I obviously can't live without and easily drop $300 at Free People.

Allie (49:25.963)
Well, and I think, so that's a really good thing to do. Some of the other things that I've also told people to do is finding other things that you find fun to do instead when you're wanting to impulsively spend or spend money. So a lot of times for me, it's like going outside. I also paddleboard. I walk my dogs a lot. I read. So finding things that I really like.

to do that are hobbies that are more than just spending money, I think has been super helpful. And they're also more productive, I feel like. But in addition to that, I think finding your own sense of style is something that people don't talk about enough too, because I do feel like in this age of consumerism, there are so many things that are on trend or trendy, and you have to buy this with a like to know it and all this other stuff.

and they're only good for a season or for a couple times. I remember when I would buy things that were trendy, they maybe would last me two or three events or outings or whatever, and now I really just shop my closet before I have an event or do something. I feel like I actually wear my clothes way more often than I did before.

Cara Lunsford (50:40.792)
Yeah.

Yeah, it's it's I'm personally I'm not a brand person. mean, I might like lean towards, like I said, free people only because I kind of like the aesthetic. Like I love the style of their clothes. So I will totally look for free people stuff when I'm thrifting. So I'm like, OK, I'm going to I know I'm going to have, you know, like one of those like little water stick things that people use to try and find water. You know, I don't remember.

Allie (50:55.627)
the start, yeah.

Allie (51:10.549)
Yeah, or like the... I don't know what that one is, but there's also one to find metal too, right, in the sand? Yeah. Yeah.

Cara Lunsford (51:11.764)
What are those things called?

Cara Lunsford (51:16.94)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's like the, yeah. And then, there's like the, yeah, I feel like I'm like that. I'm like, dee dee dee dee dee dee dee. I found it. You know, I found the free people stuff in the thrifting store. So, but I'm not, I'm not really a brand person. Like, I'm not like, I have to have Prada or I have to have like a Coach purse or I have to, I'm like, no, I could really, I could care less about a label.

And maybe if you just really like to shop, maybe you can become a personal shopper for someone else. spend somebody else's money.

Allie (51:54.636)
Yeah.

I'd always thought about that. I'm like, that would be so cool.

Cara Lunsford (52:00.417)
I'd be a great personal shopper. Because sometimes I just enjoy it.

Allie (52:02.335)
Yeah. But then you'd buy stuff for yourself.

Cara Lunsford (52:06.658)
Yeah, and you'd be like, well, and five things for you and one for me, that kind of that that type of shopping. Yeah. So I mean, I think that there's all kinds of interesting ways to to work around. I love the questions that you that, you know, is this a want? Is it a need? And, know, is it on a list that I like? Have I made a list? Has it been on that list for a really long time? You know, and now I finally

Allie (52:13.879)
Ugh.

Cara Lunsford (52:36.652)
found it and it's on sale, you know, or something like that. It it does help you. I just think more with self-awareness. I think a lot of times that can be our biggest barrier to.

financial health and other forms of health is just having that awareness. So these are all just like incredible tips and tricks. I want to make sure, obviously people can find you on Instagram. Is it debt-free nurse or the debt-free nurse? can't remember. The underscore debt-free nurse. And.

Allie (53:13.973)
It's the undersquared

actually got trademarked this year. Actually, was it this year? Yes, it was this year, yeah. So that was a big milestone. Yeah.

Cara Lunsford (53:20.984)
Good for you.

That's amazing. Good for you. Congratulations. That's a big deal. Yes, yeah, you're a little like T or you can't use this. Nobody else can use this. So is that the same as your website? Just the debt free nurse?

Allie (53:31.563)
I gotta add it to my website.

Yep.

Allie (53:38.72)
I know.

Allie (53:45.207)
So my website is www.savingwithoutsacrifice.com.

Cara Lunsford (53:50.683)
that's right, SavingWithoutSacrifice.com. That's a really good name.

Yeah. And if and we'll make sure to have a lot of that stuff also, like on our podcast landing page, people know that they can go to nurse.com forward slash podcast and find any of the episodes that they're listening to. And we try to put as much information there as possible. So you don't if you're in the car and you're driving, you don't have to be unsafe. You don't have to write anything down. We'll make sure that that stuff is all available. And is there any

else you would like to share with this audience before we sign off?

Allie (54:35.169)
Just start, and that could mean anything. Just start working on your finances. Just start if you're thinking about sharing on social media. Just start if you wanna change your job. Literally anything, just start and take the leap.

Cara Lunsford (54:53.166)
That's so good. And so important. Just start. Just go for it. I'm going to do that. As soon as I get off of this call, I'm going to dig into my bank account and be like, all right, Kara, come on, just do it. Just do it. I'll get myself a fun drink. Yeah, I'll be like.

Allie (55:09.249)
Get yourself a fun drink, whatever you like to drink.

It's five o'clock somewhere.

Cara Lunsford (55:16.364)
Take a shot for every subscription you find. no, no, that would be bad. That'd be bad. you know, I'd be I'd be halfway. I'd be trashed by, you know, the first page. So, well, it's been really fun having you on, Ali. Thank you so much for joining me and for having this really cool and fun conversation about something that people don't think is very cool or fun most of the time.

Allie (55:18.93)
gosh, that would be bad. Yeah.

Allie (55:42.231)
True, it's not the best thing to talk about for most people.

Cara Lunsford (55:46.67)
Well, I think I think that we did a very good job and you were amazing and I can't wait to see you next time hopefully, maybe when I'm back in North Carolina or I'll be there. I'll be there. All right, I'll see you there All right, Ali. Well, thank you again and we'll speak soon All right, I'm not gonna have you log off just yet

Allie (55:58.485)
Yeah, I'm speaking at the next NurseBus Summit. She just asked me. Mm-hmm, yeah. Cool. Yeah.

Allie (56:09.643)
Yeah, thank you.