It happened! New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo signed into law a requirement that nurses earn a BSN within 10 years of initial licensure. This new law has many implications for RNs in New York as well as across the country.
Why is New York so important? There are 297,331 RNs with a license in New York. That is 8% of all RNs in the U.S. This one state will set a precedent for others attempting to pass similar in your state.
The push for BSN-prepared RNs has been around for a very long time! The American Nurses Association House of Delegates adopted a motion in 1964 supporting baccalaureate education as educational foundation for the registered nurse, and reconfirmed that position in 2000.
The Institute of Medicine’s Future of Nursing Report calls for 80% of RNs to hold bachelor’s degrees by 2020, noting the need for higher education in RNs to take care of the higher complexity patients in our healthcare system.
North Dakota did require a BSN until 2003, when it was overturned. As a small state with the only requirement for a bachelor’s degree, the nursing shortage had a negative effect on that requirement. However, now that New York has passed this into law, and with the support and work of the American Nurses Association, all the state action coalitions, AARP and the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, this is not going away. This was the tipping point.
Without getting into the research of why a BSN should be required, the legislation in New York noted several reasons. Supporting literature noted that because of increasing complexity of the American healthcare system, and rapidly expanding technology, the educational preparation of the RN must be expanded.
It also stated that the nurse of the future must be prepared to partner with multiple disciplines as collaborator and manager of complex patients. If you stop and think about it, the RN is usually the least educated discipline on a multidisciplinary team. PTs, OTs, ST, Pharm Ds and social workers all are required to have bachelor’s, master’s or doctoral degrees.
Despite being the least educationally prepared, the RN often has one of the most important roles on the healthcare team.
So, what does the bill say exactly? The bill, AO1842-B/SO 6768 states has two main parts.
First, it creates a temporary nursing program evaluation commission to make recommendations on barriers to entry into nursing, availability and access to baccalaureate programs and other related issues. This report and its findings are due to the governor within 12 months.
The second part, which is effective immediately, states that “in order to continue to maintain registration as a registered professional nurse in New York state, have attained a baccalaureate degree or higher in nursing within 10 years of initial licensure.”
This specific section 3 takes effect 18 months after the act became law (Dec. 19, 2017). Current RNs, as well as those currently enrolled or pending acceptance into a program preparing registered nurses effective date of this act (which is Dec. 19, 2017) are grandfathered in. This means the provisions of the law shall not apply to them.
No doubt nurses have many unanswered questions and many individuals feel the law doesn’t or won’t apply to them. I am sure the board for Registered Professional Nurses in New York will be publishing further clarity on this.
What does this law mean for you?
Licensure in New York: If you hold a license in New York, even if you are not working there, you are grandfathered in. However, for those who later enter the profession as an RN, if you want to be a traveler, or hold a license in New York, you will fall under this requirement. This requirement is that you obtained a bachelor’s degree or higher in nursing (the law states nursing) within 10 years of your initial licensure. For example: You are accepted into an ADN program for this next fall in Texas. You take your initial exam Texas to become an RN. For certain reasons, you decide to move to New York. Based on the current list of those exempt from BSN in 10, you are not grandfathered in. This means that your clock to get a BSN or higher started with your initial license.
Legislation in your state: Many states have considered this legislation and were watching New York with great anticipation. With this bill’s passage into law in New York, you will see many more states move toward proposing legislation over the next few years. New Jersey also has pending legislation.
Educational choices: There are many current options for matriculation in nursing, with different state partnerships between diploma, associate and bachelor’s programs. In preparation for this to go into effect, there will be more options not only in New York, but also across the country. There are many RN-to-BSN programs online as well, so I would expect to see these programs expand.
Grandfathered: If you are grandfathered in because you are an RN, you still may want to consider going to get your BSN. As more hospitals look to hire BSN-prepared RNs, and as legislation requires BSN or higher, you may want to consider going back to school. Increasing your education always will give you more options.
This bill did not happen overnight. It took more than 14 years of shepherding. I expect that we see our next state to add this requirement within the next few years.
It is tough work passing legislation. Many colleagues, ANA-New York lobbyist and bill sponsors worked especially hard over the last year to see the successful passage of this bill.
“The passage of this bill into law reflects years of working toward a true collaboration of direct-care nurses, associate and baccalaureate faculty, nurse managers and administrators, healthcare facilities and professional associations and consumer advocates,” said Karen Ballard, MA, RN, FAAN, past executive director of ANA New York. “In the end, it is a win for all RNs and our patients!”
Courses related to ‘earning a bachelor’s degree in nursing’
WEB309: RN to BSN: Aligning Your Personality Characteristics with Your Career Goals (1 contact hr)
With the recommendation that 80% of nurses hold a bachelor’s degree by 2020, many RN’s may be considering advancing their education. Have you considered what areas within nursing you might like to explore? Might certain personality characteristics help you enjoy some nursing specialties more than others? Is your dream to work in management, administration, education or research? Is your desire to avoid specific job duties such as management? Try to align your strengths and personality characteristics with a nursing role you might enjoy! Perhaps there is an area of nursing you haven’t considered as a possibility for you. As you decide to further your education, an analysis of research and individual personality characteristics may help you align your goals within nursing areas you might enjoy the most.
WEB299: Progressing to School Successfully: Is Now the Time for a BSN? (1 contact hr)
Technology changes. Healthcare changes. And nursing is changing. Advance forward in your career by progressing to school successfully! With the 2020 goal of 80% of nurses holding a bachelor’s degree, what is the current distribution of degrees within nursing? What information do you need to consider to help you pursue your BSN and to become a part of the 80%? Become informed and motivated with this webinar.
CE171-60: Earning Degrees By Distance Education (1 contact hr)
Advancing in the nursing profession, and in some cases even maintaining a current position, may require a return to academic education. Returning to school can be daunting for adult learners. Balancing work, family, and traditional classes feels like an impossible burden. These factors make distance education a viable, a desirable, and often the only alternative. This module will provide nurses with information about obtaining academic credentials through distance education.
I think this is long overdo. I’ve been an RN since ‘84. My concern is what about LPN’s who fill most nursing homes and extended care facilities as well as hospitals?
Now that this law is in effect maybe those RNs without a BSN will help faze out the LPNs. I have always thought that because of the push to get a BSN.
Holy cow! My LPN program was amazing and gave me such a great nursing education, I am now an RN with my BSN….and feel LPN’s are critical. They should never be “fazed”, or appropriately spelled “phased” out.
Exactly.
As an PN instructor I don’t agree. There is a very large “hidden” population of clients who are not in hospitals and who benefit from the care of LPNs. I do however think that they should be supervised by managerial RNs with Bachelor’s preparation.
@carla why so intimidated?lol I started out as an lpn and have no regrets.maybe your skills are lacking dear.
What is the concern about LPNs?
I think this applies to RN with a 2 year degree. It says from initial licensure. I think I’m reading it right.
100% AGREE! I have a bachelor’s in psychology from Auburn University. I then became a nurse with an associates degree. I certainly do not need another bachelor’s degree in nursing since I already have one in a nursing related field. And quite honestly what am I going to do with a BSN? Do I really have time to sit there and theorize with my patient bedside? I think not.
Agree !!! The number & type of letters on your resume or name tag DOES NOT & SHOULD NOT determine your future/compassion/ability as a Nurse, I believe !! I started as an LPN then got my ADN !!! I feel our experience should count for something !! And I have NEVER understood why RNs feel so intimidated by the LPNs & vice versa — as someone said something about “phasing out” the LPN — then whose gonna do the patient care & be really AT the bedside — a lot of RNs DON’T want to & DON’T — just “busy” conveniently with paperwork/computer work instead !!! Phyllis, RNC Tennessee
CNA as usual. Let’s be real, half of the LPN passing meds in Healthcare and rehab don’t even slow down to WITNESS the residents/patients ingest it. Let alone provide bedside comfort.
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well put!!
I have been a LPN for over 40 years, both in the civilian sector as well as the Military. If you or your infant get really sick,,,you want someone like me close by. Have theory is good, however, saving a life requires experience. It sounds like people we no practical experience are trying to make the nursing shortage worse!!!!
Just wanted to add that when I was a GN, Charge Nurse in Med Surg it was an LPN that did most of my bedside/clinical on the job training. LPNs play a large part in patient care and should be acknowledged for this. The “supervisor” was mostly unavailable and when around just criticized negatively, which does not work for me as far as learning.
Well said!!!
Totally agree! I dont want to go into community nursing, management or teaching. Experience should count for something.
I agree that experience counts, as long as it is not the same experience day after day, year after year. The days of saying ,”That’s the way I was taught” are not going to cut it.
The sad things that I see even as a visitor to clinical areas are the basics being neglected, Nurses who are not familiar with their clients, poor or no supervision communication or direction from “Nurses” who either are too passive or uninformed to make a difference for their clients/staff. There are no limits to the areas where BSN prepared nurses work, and their managerial, evidence based approach to those areas coupled with assessment and critical thinking skills are a level beyond what those who haven’t learned them possess. They are a necessity today due to the complexity and scope of patient care skills and the responsibility for technology and communication necessary to be effective as caregivers.
Agree with Mary. I’ve worked with many LPNs and their contribution to patient care is priceless. I’ve seen many that provide better patient care within their scope of practice than some RNs.
Wow….I could have written that comment describes me exactly! Problem is is I am 68 and still working…where does this leave me .. Retired?
I am with you Margo, I am about 5 years from retirement. I have been in nursing 40 years, I was an LPN for 10 and then went back and got my Associates. I never had a desire to go back and certainly now, it is not worth it……..this new law stinks and in my area it is already happening, Associate Degree Nurses are being forced out. It is all about the letters after one’s name, not the experience and common sense the bedside nurses have had. Very sad, but if you ask me this was done to make NY look like we have a high standard of care in the State, when in fact it will backfire and bedside care will suffer.
Only if you want to be. You would be grandfathered. There is no push to get rid of us at any age. The need for more education has been punted around since I was in school. It is necessary and the public deserves it. We want to be a ” profession” yet we are not treated as such due to the lack of a standardized educational preparation. It is long overdue.
I work with BSNs and honestly they are scary! Can’t critically think because they are so wrapped up in theory! I’m a damn good RN without a bachelors degree and I certainly don’t need one at my age. I’ve been doing this job since 1984 and I have brought many babies into the world and have saved lives a BSN would not have help me do that anymore than my two year degree as an RN. I think it’s absolutely ridiculous! It is just another way for the states to make money! I will not go to school when my retirement is about 11 years away. I will go work at a nursing home or get another career before I go back to school to pay my schooling out of my retirement fund won’t happen in my lifetime but good luck to everybody else up-and-coming!
Agree with you fully Linda, well said!
I also agree totally. BSN programs are just that-full of Theory. Not anything that will help a needy hospitalized sick patient. They will end up supervising people with much more experience which is not going to work well for the institution they work. Glad I’m retiring in 2 years so I won’t be around to witness this. I respect anyone with a BS/BA etc. totally, but that doesn’t mean that will make them a better nurse at all.
Completely agree!
I think both an LPN and an RN at the associates level should automatically get a certain amount of credit for having a bachelor’s or master’s degree in a another field of study.
I complete disagree, and BSN is much different that and bachelors in something else. The focus is on nursing leadership and and healthcare systems, both hold knowledge and RN needs to deliver holistic, preventative, patient-centered care.
My MSN gave me more perspective than I could have ever dreamed of. A tool that I use every day.
How about an RN with a BS in Health care administration and a MS in health administration? And 32 years of nursing and health care experience? No BSN- but you think you know more about health care than me because your degrees are in nursing? It’s a big world out there- just because you have a BSN does not mean you are better.
if you already hold a NYS license you don’t have to get your BSN- you need to read the entire article
Good question as many RNs will not choose to work in LTC.
What about LPN’s?? Should they be required to hold a higher education as well??
There are many BSN nurses from other countries in nursing homes as well. The shortage will keep RNs with Associates degrees and LPNs in nursing homes and other healthcare areas. I’m past the BSN stage; however, nurse burnout and reimbursement etc. will ensure that other types of nurses remain in the game. Glad to see the motivation for higher education though.
I think LPNs should receive a higher education more so than just becoming a lower part of the spectrum. CNAs also should become RNs to BSNs by at least going back for two years at a local community college and two more years later become a BSN so you can get along with the ballgame in the wonderful working industry in healthcare.
So, you’re saying that CNAs and PCTS should be phased out? Really? Apparently, you don’t work in a real world nursing environment. Personally, I cannot adequately give care to 7 patients, and do the work of the cna/pct. I work on an intermediate cardiac unit, as a LPN. I can run circles around some of the BSN and ADN nurses. The majority of BSN nurses don’t want to do true, complete, bedside patient care. BSN is more administrative. If this requirement is going to span the United States, perhaps the curriculum should change, as well. One last thing, there’s not a lot of difference anymore, in what a LPN can do vs. an RN. People should keep up with the nurse practice act in their states of licensure.
I totally agree with you! I feel as though higher education should be a motivation factor not a requirement. When a patient is dying they do not ask….”Do you have a BSN!” They simply want great care. Before I became an LPN, Inuse to think nurses were dumb. Reason being, they only say behind a nurses station and played on their cell phones. After school, and thinking back of what our Director put us through, I realized how important the role is. I don’t know who you are but I am proud of you and every other Nurse who wants to make a difference. And to all of the nurses who feel intimidated by those with less letters behind their names, pray for happiness. Because that is certainly what you are lacking. In society people who are unhappy seek to find ways to see misery in others. I don’t have time for that!
Right on!I have a diploma in Nursing (3 yr degree hospital program). Been an RN for 23 yrs. Much of my experience has been at the bedside from med-surg, mother baby, geri psych, OR, peds to PACU,I have honed a priceless,valuable,sought after, skill set that makes me a competitive candidate
in just about any field inpatient or outpatient as I am able to draw upon my assessment,critical thinking, time management skills and apply them accordingly regardless of my degree. Experience has made me a damn fine RN,not the presence or lack of a BSN.
I agree I have been a nurse for 24 years and there is no way a bachelor’s makes a difference at the bedside. Your education as a nurse is acheivedn through practice. I went back for my bachelor’s and there was nothing in the bachelor’s program that I would apply in my nursing practice. I did not finish my bachelor’s and will not. yo
I agree. And least educated? Ha!! I have met plenty of LPNs that can run circles around most BSN nurses. While I think this is good in the long run, short term this is going to be difficult. 10 years is a long time, but a lot can happen in 10 years. Hopefully they have more RN to BSN programs out there. They will be needed!!
Agree. Seems the LPN is getting pushed out, EMTs Paramedics, Med Techs have less education and get paid more than LPNs. The STNA makes almost as much as LPNS.
Are you talking about in NYS? EMTs and Med Techs get a very low rate of pay. Paramedics ALSO do NOT get paid well AND have significantly more education than the LPN with higher responsibility (field diagnoses, intubation, cardiac pacing, chest decompression, medication administration, etc.).
A Paramedic has more education than an LPN. I would place a Paramedic on par with a RN and would be far above if the paramedic continued and received a critical care license. Both have strengths and weaknesses but Paramedics are on the front lines of healthcare and are under valued within the healthcare field.
I completely agree with you. Respiratory Therapist are under valued also?
Starting as a Paramedic and moving on through ADN and BSN, I think I have a perspective and choose to respectfully disagree with Mr. Hernandez. EMS is a specialized area of knowledge and a Paramedic has to know that narrow area of medicine pretty perfectly as they work without much support. (Yes they are very under valued and under paid). An RN must have a grasp on a much wider knowledge base just to enter he field, however over time they tend to specialize. As a medic, I din’t know what I didn’t know until I got into nursing. As far as the BSN thingy is concerned… I learned about Chaucer (required general ed), writing papers, and evaluating research for evidence. What they conveniently don’t mention is that the Aiken research shows correlation and not causation. Research from outside nursing academia (and thus without a dog in the fight so to speak) concluded that it is actually hospital funding that is the indicator for better outcomes. Don’t go to a cash starved hospital for your care. Draw your own conclusions. Better funded hospitals can afford higher rates and can cherry-pick the higher educated nurses from the surrounding areas. They also have better equipment, more and better specialists, and better staff to patient ratios. Its OK, though. All of us already in the field will be unaffected, and since NYS is losing more people every year, I’ll bet $25 bucks that this legislation will be modified or dumped in 10-12 years, maybe even sooner if the number of peops entering the profession drops drastically. Personally, by then I will be retiring to “Any-place-but-here”.
This will cause a shortage of RNs and keep many from attempting to enter into the field
I agree, Mark.
Agree! I have 25 years of experience and have no plans to go back to school. My life is too busy with working inpatient, longer shifts, commuting and maintaining a family life. My experience should be sufficient.
I do believe they said that RNs with a license are being grandfathered in. I’m from Switzerland and came to the USA as an RN about 23 years ago. I couldn’t even get my BSN even if I wanted to unless I go back to college and go through an entire nursing program!
I am originally from Australia, I was a hospital trained nurse, came to Canada 26 years ago, had to challenge the RN exam, upgrade in a couple of areas, have just passed the NCLEX in Washington last year, and now am halfway through my BSN. Honestly, it would have cost less and taken less time to do my RN all over again, which I tried to do LOL… but as I am already an RN was not allowed. I was given minimal credits, which after taking the RN exam in 3 different countries and working in speciality areas for over 26 years I believe was a little bit of a kick in the stomach. I think that we all have different skills and talents to offer, whether an RN, LPN, BSN, Masters… whatever it is we all need each other and need to work as a team, not be segregated because of an initial after our name. Nurse are special people!!! No matter our title.
I absolutely agree. And it will spell the end of diploma programs at a time when nurses are already in short supply.
There has only been one diploma nursing program in New York State for at least the past 12 years. They had 16 grads pass the NCLEX in 2016. It doesn’t add to the supply of nurses.
Exactly Mark. This is just an example of the arrogance of those who think their higher education actually matters. Funny how I was a very successful ER and Trauma nurse for 10 years with just my little AAS in nursing. No biggie though, I’m already headed back to school for something above nursing.
Agreed
Agree, many LPNs have a lot to offer. In other areas of health related degrees, it would be nice if LPNs could do the BSN bridge program.
I was an LPN who did a bridge program for my BSN. If LPN’s, CNA’s and so forth are going to be fazed out (as I see some are so happily anticipating) who will provide basic patient care? Higher education is always a good thing but some ppl are content where they are and don’t want to go any further. Not everyone can afford to be in school for years, especially if they have a family or other responsibilities.
With our ever changing economy how many of us can afford to pay for school outright? When thinking about loans, how many scams and predatory banks/loans are there out there? Can we get tax breaks on school loans? With all of these issues and now this legislature which was passes we will see the nursing shortage continue to grow. So when there are more sick than there are clinicians to take care of them maybe these issues will be rethought. We all know… what we are taught and the real world are very different… the same applies here
Very good points!!! If the state is mandating a BSN for RN practice ten they should pair it with credits for education, increasing the availability of affordable and timely degree completion programs, and increasing the number of community college based BSN (some states have already done this) programs so that all types of people have more ready access to the opportunity to become a nurse
In New York State, the number of newly licensed LPNs has been in decline for a few years. The recent peak was 2,901 of 3,512 first time passing the PN-NCLEX in 2010 which is now down to 1.988 of 2,593 in 2016. As hospitals desire more BSN prepared nurses, ADN RNs will be pushed down to fill the positions vacated by declining numbers of new LPNs.
For those LVN that get talk down to by RN – this is the perfect timing to go back to school n still run circles around those few RNs that put you down. Empower to continue and designed your destiny n mentor young LPN n treat them w respect they deserve – encouraging them to further their education.
The BSN requirement is obviously a good idea if you don’t work in health care. My goodness did anyone do any research and see the BSN school pass rates first time on license exam compared to some associate and Diploma grads. Another obvious concern would be someone like me who has been out of school for more than 20 years or say even 7 years a lot of classes would have to be repeated. My wife went back to get NP she had to retake 5-6 classes because it had been more than 5 years since she had taken them. This is all about colleges getting their money!! Who can afford to go into school debt at 40 years old we are already trying to pay for our children.
Higher education is always a good idea. I am concerned that there are those that believe a BSN Nurse is not a bedside nurse. All nurses should be educated on the fundamentals of nursing. Without these basic skills you cannot expect to truly appreciate what it is to give great bedside care and to manage patient care. Every Nurse should strive to continuously increase knowledge, regardless of the degree that he/she has at present. There is a need for all levels of Nursing. For those who are grandfathered in and not willing to go back to school for the BSN, they should have continuing education courses that help to keep their skills sharp. For others, there are several avenues to BSN, MSN, and beyond. Continue to learn and grow so that our patients can benefit
Exactly.
I have liberal arts from another degree. Became an LPN in 2010. Why? Because I could not use any prerequisites over 10 years old. At age 48, I was not spending that kind of $$ to re-take non nursing courses.
Given the current student loan climate, predatory loans and exceedingly hign costs of school which make it incrediably difficult for students to pay those loans back. I have a huge issue with this. Add to that, the tax scam that was just passed in the house and senate today, stripping your ability to deduct your education. This makes attaining those BSNs very difficult.
For those of us who would move to NY, who already possess licenses, we would not qualify for their education programs nor would we be able to work in their state, negatively impacting an already aging nursing population.
BSNs are worth only about a dollar an hour nationwide, for those nurses in their 40s and 50s, given the cost of the additional education and interest, it is not financially feasible.
I wonder if this is a push by the for profit colleges in the state? How much did they give to the governor’s campaign? I also believe you cannot teach compassion, I work in ltc and there are many rns and a few bsns where I work, It’s experience and compassion not just education. A proud LPN
I agree completely. I would like to know who’s pocket was open for this bill.
I can’t afford to go back to school right now and the fact that I am 40 means that I could be retired and still paying for student loans??? I think not! Someone prove to me that a BSN will make me a better nurse and then I will find a way to go back to school. Until then, I will continue to hold the hand of my patient.
New York State has been working to create seamless transitions in the SUNY system between 2 and 4 year degree colleges. In addition, they now have a free tuition program for grads who stay in NY and work after graduation. And SUNY in-state tuition is pretty inexpensive. Getting a BSN is not a cost issue in NY if you want to complete your education within the SUNY system.
I agree. If the government wants to make a BSN mandatory then they should be footing the bill. All this talk about nurses need more education for the intense care needed but I don’t hear anyone saying “oh and they should also be paid more for this increased workload and responsibility “
I can see that you are really excited about your future income as an educational institution from all of your exclamation points, but the number one predictor of positive patient outcomes is appropriate staffing. It will probably be negatively affected by this. Nursing doesn’t pay as well as people think, and out here in the real world it’s hard to find tuition reimbursement that actually makes a dent in costs. So, thanks for adding yet another area that values crippling education expenses over experience to the economy.
By the way, if you have the choice between someone who’s had an ASN and been nursing for twenty years and a person who’s had a BSN for one year, guess which one you should probably go with?
Oh c’mon, that sounds like an ADN/ASN with sour grapes. Perhaps you thought you were all that and more when you were a new nurse. We’ve all been new and it’s difficult. Why the chip? And I have my MSN/NNP and respect all levels because each had a read on for the choice they made. The one big thing between increased level of education is the difference between making professional judgements without judging the person. I do agree the cost of education could make the requirement difficult; but that is an issue for all degrees. The college course requirements overall need to be reworked, not watered down. But get rid of the waste!!!
I have a an MSN and MHA and I have found absolutely not extra value to my nursing care- the MSN taught me leadership and both Masters programs focused on how to teach. In fact, when I was in the MHA program I wanted my final project to have something to do with finance or administration and was told NO, I had to present a teaching project. Having a BSN doesn’t increase your bedside knowledge, it helps in other ways but it does not benefit the patients in any way
NYS offers free college tuition for residents which means the program picks up the balance of tuition costs at public colleges after all other student aide. Cost is not a barrier in New York, which is a progressive state.
Magnet hospitals will hire the BSN over the ASN every day. They prefer nurses with complete and current educations who can adapt to constant change and utilize the most current knowledge in the field of nursing. Even rural hospitals in NY are being taken over by larger systems and upgraded.
Registered nursing pays better than most fields of work with the same level of education which is why there are so many applicants for each seat in nursing programs.
Exactly.
Lpns should be required to have an associate’s degree. More and more PN programs are moving this way.
As an RN I started out with an ASN and honestly I don’t feel that a BSN nurse is any better. The core of taking care of patients and the foundation is set the time for your nursing career. This foundation is laid in Fundamentals of Nursing and the rest follows. I found that getting my BSN helped me understand if I wanted to stay at bedside or move into management.
You are absolutely correct. We’ve been trying to get safe staffing passed for years now and we continue to lobby for that law. How much education do you think the nurse needs to know when a patients’s health is declining and a doctor should be called?
So now it’s a NY state law for new RNS to get a bachelor’s in 10 yrs. I don’t necessarily agree with that. Why is THAT a government issue, but they can’t pass a safe staffing law??
Amen to that !!!!
Thank you for saying that. Why not focus on safe staffing laws and other things that affect a nurse’s work environment. I feel fixing those issues would encourage nurses to work at those facilities. Burning out nurses leads to more of the nurse shortage and no one to train new nurses.
I believe that is more important than requiring increased education.
Who lobbied for this bill?
AMEN!!!
The next issues on the agenda for the New York State Nurses Association are Safe Staffing and Single Payer health care. It’s one issue after another and you can’t get them all at one. The hospital associations didn’t fight BSN in 10 but are opposing Safe Staffing and Single Payer. They will be passed eventually.
They cannot pass a staffing law because the NYS Nursing Association doesn’t make that issue a priority. It is one reason I dropped the over priced membership
Althpugh staffing is the key to patient outcomes, California remains the only state that enforces staffing regulations. As an LPN in LTC/rehab/or dementia unit in NYS patient ratios are one LPN to 20 or 30. Night shift is 1:40. CNA’s are 1:10 and 1:20 at night. Before you say that the LPN should refuse, please know that they have and are suspended. I am working toward my RN, however that won’t solve this problem. It will only remove me from it, with a tear in my eye! I love acute rehab and gerentology. I love direct patient care. With an overmedicated population of average 13 meds per pt. and a dozen or more treatments per shift, it is a daunting task when an emergent event occurs. Join #Nurses take DC to fight for federal staffi ng laws!
Nice to see an initiative to have nurses become BSN. The next problem will come with how to compensate a nurse who has higher education. Nurses are already underpaid. Now requiring a higher education should come with higher pay.
I’m still trying to figure out how taking classes on a computer can teach me anything about nursing!!!
Why don’t you use your imagination! Let us design a program, like an internship, so we can be with patients and staff and gain the knowledge by experience so it actually helps us become better nurses, not just better at reading computer screens!!
I completely agree with you. I am an RN looking into a RN to BSN program. All classes are online!! Not one program offers an internship or clinicals, which would benefit me the most.
All RN to BSN programs require experiences in management/leadership as well as community/public health nursing. BSN nursing is not about making you a better acute or intensive care nurse. They round out your education in leadership/management, informatics, use of evidence based research, transitions/collaborations in health care, community/public health, and other topics which can’t be crammed into current content overloaded associates degree programs.
Healthcare focus has gone from primary prevention, characterized by physicians make house calls in the old days, to tertiary care where most nurses expect their patients to be bed ridden, hence the reference to bedside nursing. That has to change and primary prevention requires a much more comprehensive set of skills in assessment and education along with understanding and navigating a complex healthcare system. It requires family care, community care and system work. Even a BSN is minimal preparation for the type of work nurses are doing in public health work and will do in the future in community health nursing.
Thing will change significantly in nursing in the future and the point of the IOM’s push for BSN education is to prepare the nursing workforce for the coming change. It’s hard to see how that change will happen until you get an advanced education. Unfortunately, what might have been an orderly change could become a complete disaster given some of the goings on in Washington right now. At any rate, there are always new doors which open as you get more education and stronger educational credentials are always valued by the more highly educated folks who are making hiring decisions.
Well said.
You don’t have to sit in front of a computer, there are still campus classes, but comments such as “why don’t you get imaginative” and “how can classes on a computer teach me anything about nursing” is so full of preconceived notions and judgement, as if you’re above learning. Not all learning is experiential and many nursing schools already have internships. As the student, other than the required course objectives and syllabi to review what will be covered, the whole point of learning is that the student isn’t expected to know what the details are because then they wouldn’t need the course or might be the instructor. Last time I was in college, we were informed that nursing includes lifelong learning. What gives?
100% facts
I personally find this offensive and BS! The only difference between an ADN RN and a BSN nurse is the classes for BSN are more about leadership and public health nursing! They don’t teach us how to take care of more complex patients! Plus the cost of more school is a detriment to those who can’t afford another $15-20000 in loans! All this is doing is forcing more debt onto people! There isn’t a big pay difference between the two degrees, so it makes taking out more loans a bad economic decision! What’s next? They force us to get a PhD in nursing? Might as well be a doctor!
Other professionals in healthcare have bachelors as their entry level requirement. Why can’t nurses? Nurses need to go to school to earn the money now. They need not only pratical knowledge but theorrtical. The patient and world is changing, so also the nurse. Gone are the days of Nancy the nurse. To earn equal to other healthare workers, nurses need more education to be able to join in research and projects.
I agree, I started a BSN program and had to discontinue due to the amount of time required to simply write papers. The BSN program does not teach anything about taking care of patients. It’s about leadership, which is great if you want to go into management. Some hospitals do not even give you a bonus or an increase in pay for obtaining your BSN. I graduated with my Associates degree in nursing in 1999. I have no plans on going back to school. I see this causing more of a nursing shortage.
15-20000 isn’t even close!!!
This new policy has been pushed by educators in nursing for a very long time. How many SUNY schools have BSN nursing programs in New York State to make this $ feasible?
Is New York State going to subsidize the cost which is closer to 30,000 a year taking into consideration that working and going to a BSN program is very difficult due to the required flexibility you must have to participate in clinical.Where in the NYC metropolitan area can one choose to attend a SUNY nursing program at a reasonable cost?
Associate degree nurses are far superior in clinical practice than BSNs out of the gate. Hell my BSN Program we weren’t even allowed to start an IV or draw blood!
SUNY Alfred, Binghamton, Brockport, Buffalo, Canton, Delhi, Farmingdale, Morrisville, Plattsburg, Polytech, and Upstate all have RN to BSN programs. Many of them are online which allows students to attend without having to physically go to a campus. Here is a search screen for you:
https://www.suny.edu/attend/find-a-suny-program/undergraduate/currfd_search.cfm?searchType=currSearch&Term=45&StudType=Transfer&EOP=No°reeType=4&currIDKey=&CampusID=&CurrName=Nursing&searchCurrFdSubmit=Processing…
The clinical experiences in BSN completion (RN to BSN) programs are in leadership/management and community/public health per the AACN 10 Essentials. There is no need to repeat clinical experiences in acute or intensive hospital care. These don’t amount to that many hours.
RN to BSN programs do not cost $30,000 per year for public colleges.
Most nursing programs do not have tasks like blood draws and IV starts performed on live patients because hospitals don’t allow it. These are procedures which hospitals prefer to teach themselves for quality control and risk reasons. While invasive procedures are the fun stuff nurses like to talk about, they are just tasks. Clinical expertise is way more than learning tasks and repeating them constantly. The point of additional education provided by the RN to BSN completion, is to add knowledge and skills integrated with those already built by previous education and clinical experience.
I started with a BS in Business with a minor in Management. Years later, with 5 young children and a failing marriage, I returned to school and earned an ADN. I was taught theory and critical thinking. I’ve been nursing 18 years now. My experience as a Cardiac RN should be a treasure. Thankfully where I work I am treasured for my knowledge and quick recognition of a patient going south. As with all jobs/careers there are those that should have chosen another career path. Many, but not all of the BSN and ADN grads I precept have no critical thinking skills. They have book smarts but no compassion, no people skills, no listening skills. Holistic nursing requires that. I have no desire to be in management where I’m stuck between administrators wanting ‘yes’ men and my staff who are working their butts off needing support. I love bedside nursing. I love my CNAs and could NEVER care for 6 patients without their help. Personally I want to continue what I’m doing until I retire. I’m a great nurse and I learn new medical information every week I work. At this point in my life, a BSN education will only take a lot of money without providing any benifit for me. If it is decided to do away with LPN and ADN programs, may I suggest adding a class where texting is not allowed. Real and therapeutic communication along with compassion and “think of yourself as that patient lying there.” are required pass off skills.
Sucks. We are so short of nurses now. This is all about money, not for nurses, for schools. The cost of a BSN does not compensate the small raise they will receive. This a new way of raising more taxes for the state of New York.
David MBA, MSN, BSN,RN
I totally agree and once all RNs have to have a BSN the hospitals will not longer give the extra 10 cents for the BSN prepared nurses
I totally agree and I believe there should be educational assistance if this is required by a state, institution or agency. I went back and received my BSN. Lucky the hospital I worked for paid for the education. RN single moms maybe need help. Single mom.
10 years? It’s way too long. And then how much are they gonna get pay compared to doctors.
This is ridiculous. SCHOOLS ARE SO EXPENSIVE. WHAT SOME OF THESE NURSES ARE GOING TO DO IS DROP OUT AND GO TO OTHER PROFESSIONS. THEN THERE WILL BE A SHORTAGE IN THE HEALTHCARE FIELD. IT’S ALREADY BAD ENOUGH TO GET ACCEPTED AND KEEP FOCUSED TO PASS AND THEN TAKE NCLEX. WHAT MAKES YOU GUYS THINK THAT WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS FAIR TO THE NEWBIES WITH TECHNOLOGY CHANGING EVERY OTHER YEAR OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE. CNAs THAT WANT TO BECOME NURSES THAT THRIVE ARE GOING TO SIMPLY NOT FURTHER THEIR EDUCATION BECAUSE SCHOOL IS WAY TOO EXPENSIVE AND HANDLING FAMILY PLUS THEIR OUTSIDE LIFE IS TOO MUCH. I’M REALLY UPSET WITH THIS. EVERYTHING IN THE HEALTHCARE FIELD IS MANDATORY (FLU SHOTS). NOW SCHOOL? WHAT’S NEXT?
Yea be proud! Its absolutely nonsense not to grandfather in nurses that sustained themselves in a challenging job. Sorry we can’t have you here as a traveler we rather take an inexperienced RN!
Will BSN make someone a better nurse???? I don’t think so. I was an LPN for 8 yrs, went back to college for my associate degree. I was in my 40’s at the time, I didn’t come out learning anything more about nursing than I already experienced. I did, however, take on the added expense of student loans which, at 62, I am still paying. Thank God I am on the way to retirement. You will lose some excellent nurses with this requirement.
I agree! We don’t need more BSN RNs at the bedside. We need less state and federal paperwork and red tape to safely, effectively care for patients at the bedside.
Who’s going to pay? Who’s going to help support families when you have to work part time and go to school?
It won’t last. It only puts people in more debt.
I think it should have always been required. An RN license in 2 yrs with the stipulation to continue to get a BSN. As was stated, all other professional careers require a bachelor’s degree.
What happens when all these BSN NURSES decide to do something else in management or other avenues? What happens to the hospitals when you don’t have the nurses or LPNs to run the nursing homes or hospitals? What happens to the patients?
This is already happening in my area where most hospitals have a 5 year from hire RN-BSN requirement. Those nurses are only getting about a $1 on the hour for an additional degree, so many of those nurses leave to pursue MSN or higher where the pay is better.
I am currently working on my LPN to ADN-RN and I plan to go on and become a NP, because the debt to income ratio just doesn’t make sense to me at the BSN level.
The local hospital is having a nursing crisis and is now hiring experienced LPNs to assist all of the brand new (ADN)RNs they have. I turned down a job offer when I realized they wouldn’t even offer me 2/3 of what I currently make. It’s sad, because I would love to have surgical vascular floor experience, but I still have to pay my bills.?
I think this should not be a mandate but require further training for ADN and LVN. Nursing homes can’t afford to pay all RNs. This will eventually bring our working wage down or stagnant when everybody has the same education level. The pay is already stagnant because of health insurance. Reimb.
My concern is the degree vs experience value in nursing. I believe that a bachelor’s degree is valuable, but so is the ADN with experience. 10 yrs is a good amount of time though. Continued education is already a requirement, so this does not seem so bad. Assistance with tuition seems appropriate and necessary.
Good points, I agree.
Some of us got our LVN after a stint as corpsman or medic serving the country. Then we got our ADN. I have a Bachelor’s of Applied Science but nobody cares about that on the path of getting an MPH. Does that even matter? This BSN requirement makes some of us eternal students, while we still complete CEUs, etc.
Nursing college classes count towards your CEUs, so you don’t have to do both.
Nobody makes a big deal about it because it isn’t; if you’re in a master’s program it obviously meets requirements.
What may I ask are your concerns? Do you really think an RN BSN is going to pass meds and do treatments in a LTCF?? Get real. I have been an LPN since early 80’s and aim to retire in 4 years. I have worked with many good RNs and plenty who were not so good. The same with LPN co-workers. Getting an education from a book does not mean you are going to be a good, qualified nurse no matter what initials you have behind your name. Most individuals can read a book, memorize what they need for a test and forget the info the next day. To make a good nurse clinical experience for many years is the key! I worked in Dialysis for most of my career and my duties, with exception of a push med, were exactly what the RNs did on a daily basis and that included subclavians and permacaths and yes they are in the scope of practice for a Dialysis LPN in PA. I completed assessments on a daily basis and used critical thinking skills as well as my RN co-workers. Our nephrologists respected all staff and encouraged our feedback. So, with that being said I would not be concerned about us LPNs. We are doing just fine. We do the jobs an RN doesn’t want to do. By the way, in PA where I live LPNs in LTCF and home care make an RN’s salary without the added responsibilities. Another tidbit, Pinnacle Health has started hiring LPNs back in all their hospitals, IV Therapy included. If I had any concerns my concern would be that most LTCF are using Med-Techs to dispense all medications that were given only a few hours of training.
Excellent point! We need to raise the bar for LPNs too.
Schools offering online RN to BSN programs don’t have clinical classes, which are mandatory and high demanding part of all on-campus programs. How can nursing preparation go without the clinical part? Could anyone imagine medical students without clinical classes or residency? I think RNs have NO less responsibility for patients than doctors do. So how do nursing programs PREPARE RNs without clinical classes. Nonsense!!!! By my opinion, online programs, which have NOT clinical classes should be discredited and closed for preparing “theoretical” RNs. Shortage of nurses doesn’t give right to prepare abnormal professionals, taking care of human being’s health/life. I wonder who wants to be taken care by nurses who didn’t get practical training. What is the purpose of growing “false” degree impractical “nurses”. Just for statistics?
Have we forgotten the program is for practicing RN to BSN? A person has to be working as an RN. That is your clinical.
I hold a two yr RN nursing degree since 1973, a BS degree in psychology and a MS degree in adult education.
I hold NY state licences but I live and practice nursing in the state of MD. Would I be affected by this law?
You will be grandfathered in as long as you do not let your NYS license lapse
What about nurses with associate degrees with 20 + years of experience and almost ready to retire? There is already a nursing shortage as it is. The newest technology is computers. And computers have taken away bedside nursing.Patients are actually short changed because of modern technology. What are the statistics for time and caring for patients vs computer obligations? The shortage will increase and that will equal more neglect and mistakes. An 8 hr. shift is now a ten hour shift. Bittersweet.
Worst mistake. Nursing needs working people. It is a great place for people going into the work force. Our bsn’s do not want to be at the bedside. They all want manager positions.
Propaganda to generate money
ADN sit for the same exam as BSN
Inexcusable
The NCLEX is an initial nurse licensing exam for safe practice. It is not about what you are capable of becoming.
More education required, wages go up?
Go ahead and pass your fancy laws making RNs earn a BSN, then continue to give us a 50 cent or $1 raise for doing so. Pitiful.
Ha ha about time. BSN 1983 and paid for…..
Started out in housekeeping, nurse’s aide, LPN, RN…BSN.
NEED TO REQUIRE ACTUAL EXPERIENCE WHEN LICENSED.
Not that is a ladder climb! you go!
BSN doesn’t provide any additional experience. It provides management courses and statistics. Does nothing for better patient care.
Awesome!
After getting my BSN I realized it was simply a numbers game. The papers and classes I was required to take was a complete waste of time. In no way did acquiring my BSN improve or change my practice.
So, if they are going to sign this into law then a decent pay increase, to compensate for the lack of nursing raises for the last fifteen years, should also be considered.
This isn’t good for nursing.
Healthcare already has a shortage.
I’m sorry, the course load difference between a BSN and non-BSN does not significantly improve anything in health care and for many going from ADN to BSN it is $$$$. This bill is more to pad someone’s bank account than really improve health care.
Education is fine. I have a MSN and MBA but nursing doesn’t need the government dictating this. Nurses need to be paid more money and we need more nurses. If the pay was better that would attract more. Also we need more staffing and equipment ..need hi tech equipment in caring for our clients.
Can’t believe any nurse would welcome this and the person who wrote the article is full of herself. Certainly not advocating for NURSING as a whole.
We should govern ourselves and stand up for real issues. Nurses with associates and diploma RN are certainly capable of caring for our clients. These nurses are some of the best nurses in our profession.
Just insulting that is become a headline when there is so many real issues in nursing
Ken Anderson BSN MSN MBA
It’s a crock, just to make schools obtain more monies.
So as an ADN RN, when do I lose my job??? I’ve been licensed for 7 years. I’ve enrolled in online BSN three times and quit each time. The classes were ridiculously unhelpful. Whyyyyy???
I have an ADN, I spent 2 years doing required courses to get into the program then 2 years in nursing only classes. My requirements were much stricter in 1976 than programs now. I am appalled that many of the instructors now have never touched a patient but profess to know more about nursing than I do. I agree patients are much more complex but as we have seen, nurses have to go to specialized training AFTER graduation to work in nursing. No BSN trained nurse can come right out of school and work on an oncology unit, CCU, ER, CVCU, NICU, PICU or SICU. I am just as able to be taught. I came out of school with more clinical hours than BSN trained students and more direct patient care. Standardized school requirements need to be implemented. Most BSN programs spend 2-3 years never touching a live person.
Diana, alot of hospitals are actually hiring new grads straight into the specialties you listed for the purpose of being able to give them a sort of on the job training that is specific and tailored to that floor. I am an USAF Medic veteran, got my LPN when I got out of the service and im currently in an ADN program to get my RN and here in El Paso, TX, every hospital hires new grad RNs into every specialty floor because it’s easier for them to train the brand new baby RNs to do exactly what they want done and how they want the care to be provided to pts instead of having to essentially retrain a more experienced nurse who is set in her ways with regard to her specialty. Especially the NICUs and PICUs love to hire new grads with very little experience for the blank slate that they provide. Now this may be a different practice than other places but here it seems to be working for them, the NICUs here don’t seem to have any issue with 21 and 22 weekers after delivery despite being full of both new grads (nurses who have been an RN less than 1 year) and experienced nurses.
I disagree that requiring a BSN will make nurses better able to take care of patients. Why? Because I’ve witnessed peers spending precious time and money, obtaining bachelor’s degrees, taking classes like statistics and multiple subjects which have no practical application at the bedside. I have worked with BSN students and graduates, many of whom are severely lacking in practical hands on skills. I’ve been a nurse for 30 yrs, after having graduated from a diploma program, and I am here to tell you that there is nothing a BSN nurse can do that I can’t do. It is unfair to force people to spend money and time getting a degree when it isn’t going to benefit them financially. I’m 59 yrs old, and at the top of my income scale. I would retire before being forced to go back to school for a degree. It doesn’t make us better nurses. It just puts money in the pockets of universities.
So, writing papers on leadership with no clinical hours is supposed to make my ADN more knowledgeable to take care of patients in a critical setting? What a crock!
Why are peope commenting on LPNs when this post is about 2-year degree RNs being required to obtaining a BSN? These facilities are soooooo short on staffing. This is insane. What they should do is require a BSN for an RN to be in a supervisory position, instead of allowing a new grad 2-year educated nurse with NO clinical experience that can barely operate a thermometer be in charge of anybody or anything. And yes I myself have seen LPNs run rings around RNs. It’s happening on a daily basis here in NYC in LTC …. Happy Holidays ?
I’ve been a nurse for 19 years. 7 years as a LVN and 12 as RN AAS. I recently got excepted to an RN to BSN program at Houston Baptist University. This is my 3rd try in a program to further my nursing training. The first time I was not prepared for online BSN, after I became an RN. The second I was in an RN to FNP program, I was prepared this time but became very ill with Rheumatoid Arthritis and Sjoren’s Syndrome. Now that my health is somewhat stable, I’m prepared to at least get a BSN. It’s going to take me a year to complete. GOING TO ALL THESE NURSING PROGRAMS. I CAN TRULY SAY THAT MY LVN TRAINING IN THE RURAL PART OF TEXAS WAS VERY STRUCTURED AND HAS PREPARED ME MORE AS A NURSE THAN ANY OF MY RN PROGRAMS. BUT all of these RN programs have TAUGHT ME MORE ABOUT THEORY OF nursing and management of nursing. In that aspect my teaching as been PRICELESS.
BSN has “BS” in it for a reason. I’m getting my ADN in California but have a BS in another field. I plan to use that as a bridge to go from ADN to MSN. This law does nothing to improve healthcare and will increase already critical shortages. I regret leaving my career of 20 years to go into nursing. I had no idea how little “care” there is in healthcare.
I’m sorry to hear your frustration. I have been a nurse for over 15 years and agree that this push feels to have ulterior motives. Healthcare has changed so much and turned into a big business. I am a manager who pushes to keep it about the patient and try to reconnect us with why we became healthCARE professionals — bringing the care back into our profession. It feels like an uphill journey at times, but I believe anything is possible! Best wishes…
Good luck. Most MSN programs require a BSN. I have a bachelor’s in psych that I got before my ADN, and I’d have to do a BSN to even apply for an MSN program. Unreal.
My health care career has gone from Medical Assistant to LPN to ADN to BSN all toward achieving my RN goal. I do agree that at some point in one’s professional nursing career obtaining a higher degree would be a personal professional goal. It does baffle me how so MUCH attention goes toward the ADN obtaining a BSN when we practice the same at the bedside care level. The ADN RN did PASS the SAME exam in obtaining registered nursing licensure as the BSN. Give THEM credit for THAT! The focus in health care needs to be on eliminating programs like the ADN program and making BSN the required program of study, if it’s the preferred requirement. Also, give more attention to improving health care delivery, increasing wages for health care providers and creating resilient programs for nurses.
How about STAFFING – worst, no more patient safety ratio. Unbearable, especially in New York. It’s out of control. TERRIBLE.
With this push to further educate they need to make the wages more competitive across the United States. Forcing RNs to take on more debt in states that they still make wages that haven’t changed in 7 years is ridiculous. I am a nurse manager who went back for a BSN after 10 years of nursing and can honestly tell you I learned nothing new that would benefit my practice. This push to me does more for the colleges and job security for RNs employed at said colleges than anything else. I have compared wages in Calif, Colorado, Texas, Ohio, Florida and North Carolina, and it’s a shame what some nurses are still being paid yet we are now forcing BSN debt on them. For me at my stage I am now facing having to return to school for my master’s. Without a significant college reimbursement plan and or an increase in wage all this does is provide me with more letters behind my name with more debt to show for it. I have a fellow co-worker who just finished his master’s degree and can testify to this. Working in the field day in and out is what gains you the experience needed. Not classroom semantics around outdated knowledge. Maybe there just needs to be a curriculum overhaul. I’m all about continuing education, but on a mass scale such as this it’s hard to stay ahead of the everchanging healthcare arena and maintain cost.
If you are a nurse for 18 years, New York board should let you work with you Puerto Rico licensure.
Who is paying for this? And I agree with Mark also. You are going to see less going into nursing. If I’m going to go to a 4 yr program it would have been something less back breaking and pays more money!
I don’t see that requiring a BSN to practice nursing as a bad thing. As nurses we work with other other staff who have, at the very least, the bachelor’s degree in their fields; however, the nurses are the most relied on when it comes to a patient’s care. In addition, nurses (really) run the hospital, so education is not a bad thing. If we want to be a profession, and be treated as professionals, then we need to meet the levels of those we work with.
Aren’t you tired of “just being a nurse”? I love what I do, and also make the argument between the experienced ADN versus a new grad BSN; however, at the end of the day, the BSN will meet that level of experience, and have more options. Does the BSN make one a better nurse? I would argue that it does. Associates level education provides what we need, the minimum requirement to practice as a nurse, but some parts are missing. We need theory, we need to understand why certain nurses do what they do, how they know why it works, and why nursing truly is a science, because to say “you do this, when this happens, just because”, doesn’t inspire confidence in anyone.
We need leadership, because it shows us that there’s more to nursing than just what we’re doing at work. The danger of not advancing education: You become a task person, with some limitations to your critical thinking. You’re good at what you do, because you do it all the time. And how does one in that position get to ask or demand for more things like higher pay or nurse-to-patient ratio laws? More education is a way of securing our future as a profession, and gets us that seat at the table where we can negotiate for ourselves, and advocate for how we think healthcare should run.
Precisely. It is also important to understand the US spends 18% of GDP (and growing) on healthcare while most industrialized nations spend around 10% while achieving better results. We are going to have to shift away from allowing people to develop chronic health issues and treating them, as we do now. A focus on primary prevention takes a much more knowledgeable workforce. BSN programs aren’t just a baccalaureate degree. They provide the addition knowledge in community and public health nursing, informatics, leadership and management, use of evidence based research, and transitions in healthcare which working outside tertiary care requires. There are reasons why European nations, Canada, and Australia (among others) have moved to requiring BSN prepared nurses, and why they have better care with lower cost.
Sounds like he was heavily influenced by higher education.
I agree, I started a BSN program and had to discontinue due to the amount of time required to simply write papers. The BSN program does not teach anything about taking care of patients. It’s about leadership, which is great if you want to go into management. Some hospitals do not even give you a bonus or an increase in pay for obtaining your BSN. I graduated with my Associates degree in nursing in 1999. I have no plans on going back to school. I see this causing more of a nursing shortage.
Most states already require RNs to have annual continuing education for license renewal, specifically to keep up with new technology and patient acuity. The bulk of BSN programs are aimed at management, research, etc and not clinical nursing. Bad idea during a nursing shortage that this will just exacerbate. And how is this the government’s issue anyway? If anything it should reside with the State Board of Nursing.
This new law is ridiculous. I am a Paramedic with an AS in EMS, graduating as an RN soon. I was actually looking into jobs in NY but now not so much. At the end of the day I’ll take a great RN then a mediocre BSN, besides the RN to BSN difference is not much, medically speaking, the big difference is the load of college pre reqs that the BSN requires over the RN.
I feel like those states who want to enforce higher education should either pass tuition free laws or lower tuition fees in colleges.
And I also agree with a comment said earlier if hospitals feel that a RN is under qualified than let RNs practice in other fields like nursing homes, ALFs, flight nurses, etc.. but that should be up to hospitals not a bunch of liberal bureaucrats who don’t even know what RN or BSN stand for.
New York State does offer free tuition for some…
Read the legislation, those already practicing or already enrolled in a ADN program are grandfathered in. You are good to go, so to speak. The issue is what happens to ADN enrollment in 18 months when this silly bit of legislation kicks in? Think there is a nursing shortage now?
45 yrs and a BSN I strongly feel that the profession begs for better screening of nursing candidates rather than mandated level of education. We have far too many in the profession who are not suited to the riggers … imho of course. My BSN came after my ASN and truly added nothing to my clinical skill, I did however perfect my writing skills. Thrilled with my path, and thrilled to be retiring.
When you increase the education requirements, you will need to increase the salary. Then you increase the hospital costs, thus increasing the cost of healthcare. The changes needed in healthcare are not the nurses. It is the staffing. Once again a knee jerk reaction totally misses the important needs of patients. Once again New York thinks it’s the voice of America. Once again the people lose.
When I was making the choice to become an RN, I called all the major hospitals in my area and asked them who they would hire – a BSN or an ADN. At that time, 1994, every one of them said an ADN.
Their rationale was they didn’t have to teach an ADN, but did have to teach the BSN – that the ADN could hit the ground running. Over my 20+ year career, this has been proven to be the case time and time again.
Now, I am all for continuing education and making sure the patient has the best advocate possible, but does the BSN program truly prepare the nurse for bedside nursing? Not based on my experience. They enter the nursing field lacking clinical experience and the inability to manage a full caseload.
Retired ICU RN, currently working as a legal consultant – all with an ADN degree.
Does Florence Nightingale have BSN? No! Yet she made history through her compassionate nursing care and excellent patient care. BSN or no BSN nursing career needs just the AAS. With great clinical experiences, we are good to go.The government should leave nurses alone and focus on other important issues hanging on.
I say ‘about time’ if you think this discussion has been going on since 1964 it shows we are a dysfunctional profession. Other professions are requiring Ph.D. for those who want to practice. Examples include Pharmacists and Physical Therapist
The entry level for practice should be a BSN (Period). When I graduated as an LPN in 1973 ‘they’ said if you are not an RN you will not be able to get a job. So I went back to school and got my RN from an Associate program. I found the practice of Case Management and decided to go the Business Route vs. the Academic route so I got a BS in Health Services and then a Masters in Education as that was where my career was taking me. At 60 I planned to get my BSN/MSN but was diagnosed with a Brain Tumor so I put it off. Glad NY will be grandfathering in nurses until a certain point. This mandate has been a long time coming and I hope it goes into laws around the country.
I have an Associates and two Bachelor’s degrees. I think it’s absurd that I would need to return to school, pay a fortune for classes that truly don’t have any impact on my actual work as a RN, all to obtain a coveted BSN. No thank you. I do not believe it will benefit me very much.
This is a double edge sword because ok higher education will help prepare nurses in the healthcare field to excel in different roles and to prepare them to deal with the complexity of having patients that are more ill as it’s the trend now. Should and could this law be apply for new graduates. The demand for more nurses is evident and running into a bigger deficit of nurses would be a mistake when the population being serve are sicker, with multiple comorbidity requiring more close and time consuming care. All bc they don’t have a degree and not taking into account their experience.One thing we can’t deny is that there are nurses including many seniors, who don’t have bachelors but have years of extensive experience and make better nurses and leaders than those with advance degrees who may be new graduates. The actual hands on learning experience is what makes a good nurse. How about focusing on a legislature limiting the nurse patient ratio.
Quite frankly, I am a graduate of a hospital affiliated school of nursing and consider the education and experience that we received to be far superior to most of my younger colleagues. I was not saddled with crippling debt and received 33 months of classes that were coupled with practical experience in the hospital. This is equal to and, in many ways, more comprehensive than the student experience of many young nurses today. There is nothing taught in a college that wasn’t taught in our nursing school environment. The demise of the 3-year program which was encouraged by the ANA, was a mistake and has not led to any vast improvement in the quality of the nursing profession of today. In fact, it has eliminated many persons who are very qualified because of financial considerations. Caring and compassion are not learned in a college classroom or on a computer; a good nurse is not measured by the letters after her name. It would be better to put more attention and legislation into safe staff/patient ratios and regulation of staffing and hours worked per shift.
I am a proud graduate of Muhlenberg Hospital School of Nursing, Plainfield, NJ. The school is closed. The hospital is closed. Where would I obtain my transcripts? Would I have to start back at Nursing 101? At age 66 is this reasonable? I have been a Case Manager for 26 years & plan to work another 9 years. Would you want a “new-be” doing your Case Management & schooling your physicians on how to appeal an insurance denial? Good luck with that.
LPNs are the nurses in Nursing homes. The RN is the DON. I foresee many nursing homes closing if they are forced to staff with BSNs only. Then who will be caring for the elderly while families are busy getting their degrees & working? The demise of America from the inside out. Think people!
I have friends that just graduated that nursing school. They’re associated with union county college. You should still be able to get your transcripts.
So letting nurses practice for ten years before requiring a BSN makes more sense then just tapering off Associate’s degrees in Nursing? Why allow people to obtain a 2 year nursing degree at all? If giving better care, being more educated, and more adequately fulfilling our role on a multidisciplinary team is the reason behind this, why are we allowing a decade to go by before obtaining a BSN as opposed to eliminating the problem entirely. Stupid.
I have an Associates Degree in Nursing and I have been a Registered Nurse for 36 + years. I have obtained certification in my area of specialty and have mad it my professional mission to stay educated and abreast of the current evidence in nursing and medicine.
What I have seen with the BSN students is a lack of skill. They are introduced to nursing, but have a deficit in skills. They come to the hospital (often) without ever having started an IV, placed a foley, dressed a wound, etc. I hope you get my point. If you are going to mandate more education, please EDUCATE the nurses! More bedside and clinical hours are needed.
First I want to comment on the fact that you have some very competent CNA’s and LPN’s
Who as stated in some of the comments can run rings around RN’s. Everyone one on the team has a function and it needs to be recognized. At the end of the day if your an Associate Degree Nurse or a BS Degree Nurse we all take the same exam don’t we. What makes you a good nurse is that you have compassion and a love for your profession. Everyone has their role and everyone is needed in their own capacity. Having your BS or Masters does not mean you are the best Nurse or as the commercial that I hate says THE REAL NURSE I find this an insult to Nursing so a LPN is not a real Nurse tell that to some LPN’s who CAN run rings around RN’s or Nurses who rely on certain CNA’s because they know that they are competent in what they do or might be over competent.
So I say you can have as many letters behind your name that’s not what makes a good Nurse or a REAL NURSE I am glad for anyone to progress in their field but we still need those whose desire is to do direct patient care let’s be for real about it. Everyone on the team is needed from the Tech, CNA, LPN, RN etc. and some people’s lifestyle just does not give them the opportunity or money to return to school. This bill has good and bad points but we should respect everyone’s position in the medical field because no medical school or exam is easy. I applaud all in the medical profession and say be proud of who you are and what you accomplish because it takes a lot to finish
and still keep your sanity in tact.
How about safe staffing legislation!
I am 48 and just finished my AAS. I haven’t even received my pin yet and now I have to think of getting my BSN.
No, this only applies to new applicants moving forward. Not to existing graduates. However, you will want to think about getting your BSN as you move forward. You’ll be competing for jobs with more and more nurses who will have their BSN. As hospitals increase competition for patients, more will become Magnet increasing the percentage of BSN only hospital jobs. Combining your growing experience with more education is the best way to learn. RN to BSN programs can be done part time and frankly are way less stressful than initial licensing programs which are overloaded with content to prepare you for the NCLEX.
More nurses in state and federal government! More nurses to influence policy! You can do it!
The RN role has expanded significantly over the last 10 years. With more responsibility and duties than ever before. These responsibilities require critical thinking and the ability to apply evidence based practice. Increasing autonomy and defining the nursing profession. Unfortunately I have not seen a salary increase to match these changes except on the West Coast. I am shocked that we will pay the manager of a tech company or car dealership more than we pay someone with a four year or graduate degree who is involved in healthcare and potentially life changing decisions. How are nurses supposed to pay for advancing education with low paying wages?
Having seen the quality of nurses coming out of bsn programmes, i don’t think this actually does anything in support of better nursing. The extra letters may sound great, but a nurse with pure BSN education has around 500 hours of clinical education experience, whist a typical associates graduate has over 700 hours. I’ve worked with bsn graduates that have not had any hands on experience with ngt, trachs, or the similar. And then there was a nurse that had not been taught in their school how to use insulin from a vial (because everyone uses pens now) and promptly put their patient in the icu because of their lack of knowledge. This from a BSN? Thats meant to mean a better clinical nurse? I haven’t seen evidence of that, and we are an evidence based practice profession!
This is largely a discussion of the requirement for new associates degree nurses to progress to completion of a BSN. So presumably, the high quality of associates degree education will be built on with completion of components that can’t be fit into content overloaded associates degree nursing programs.
One of the drawbacks to exclusively working in a hospital nursing environment is only seeing patients so ill they have to be treated in a hospital. That’s just a slice of most people’s lives and it gives you a very narrow view of healthcare and nursing as a whole. You don’t deal with primary prevention, you don’t interact with our complex billing and payment systems, you don’t generally introduce research into practice unless you are in a Magnet setting, you don’t have opportunity to develop leadership skills very easily, you are focused on individuals instead of families and communities,and you are reactive rather than proactive in health system changes.
Nursing is being challenged by other professions with pharmacists doing vaccinations, physical therapists treating lymphodema, non-clinical educators taking over health education and the like. Nursing needs to push it’s educational boundaries out, push back out into the community, and lead a focus on health prevention. It isn’t going to happen with a nursing workforce where a large minority of new graduates, and a majority of practicing nurses have an education focused on tertiary nursing care.
I have no desire to EVER do anything except bedside nursing in a critical care field. I don’t want to be anyone’s boss nor do I have the patience to aste my breath trying to convince Americans who are not concerned with their health to start to be concerned with their health. I was drawn to the military and combat medicine because I function the best in high stress, life or death situations where my critical thinking and experience are what’s important. I can’t ever see myself as a nurse sitting behind a desk making cold calls or being a scheduler (nothing wrong with management or the like, so please no one take offense, just not my cup of tea) and there are other nurses like myself who just won’t ever want to do that so a BSN is only useful to me bc eventually all hospitals will be BSN only.
One question, with regard to my MIL: To be a travel nurse to NY from out of state with an ADN over 10 years old does this law make you ineligible for a NY license altogether or are out of staters also grandfathered for the purpose of travel nursing?
once again this shows what a jerk the Mr. Cuomo is. with all the problems in this state he does this!. What will happen is nurse’s without BSNs will move out of state. Why would someone want to go from AS to BSN and rack up more debt. when they might want a house, car, etc.
In New York State, there is a new program which will potentially cover all of your tuition costs to obtain a BSN. These pieces of legislation were passed by a bi-partisan majority in the Assembly and Senate and signed by the Governor. NY is progressive in encouraging education.
https://www.ny.gov/programs/tuition-free-degree-program-excelsior-scholarship
In response to Andrew – Yes, NYS does provide “scholarship” money for “free”; however, in order to be eligible, one MUST take 30 CREDITS in a year.. HMMMM,… I don’t know about anyone else, but there is no way I can do that AND work AND take care of a house even without young children! How unrealistic. If someone is able to secure this “free” money, they must also stay in NYS for the same amount of time that they used the money or it must be paid back. Nothing is free.
I can honestly say going from my ADN to my MSN, I learned a great deal about what is needed to improve patient care through research. I didn’t really learn how to be a better nurse by obtaining my BSN from my ADN. There are jobs for every step of nursing and I’m a little worried about what this will do to the cost of healthcare for the U.S. It is already crazy high for anyone to see a physician and to go to the hospital is even worse. With each degree we receive, we receive an increase in pay as a nurse. I’m one of the lucky few who managed to not have to pay anything for my degrees. I found scholarships, etc. to pay for all of my nursing degrees. If I had to pay for my degrees, I don’t know that I would have gone back because the cost would have been too great. I can say that the obtaining my BSN and then my MSN, after my ADN was very liberating to me and made me feel better about myself but not necessarily the care I gave my patients. I came out of my ADN program knowing more than most BSN did at the time. The concentration for BSN programs in the city I practiced in was more on administration and less on patient care. The hospital I worked for would hire a ADN all day long before the BSN’s because they knew the ADNs knew more about actual patient care and took less time to train. That spoke volumes for the college who instructed the ADN program.
I think there needs to be some standardization of nursing education and what actually does turn out good nurses versus the degree itself. That being said, sometimes those who enter the lower degree programs are often just looking to do less work and will often turn out less motivated nurses. My husband is an LVN and the majority of those who went through his class were just looking for a quick way to make money. It wasn’t about patient care. It was about money and job stability. The ADN program I went through I can honestly say was not that way. The instructors taught us to be the BEST nurses and give quality patient care. That was because of the program and the instructors not the degree.
I guess I should be a bit clearer on what I was trying to say. I think in order to be respected by those we work with, we DO need to have advanced degrees just as others who work in the healthcare industry. However, I would also like to see legislation for what is actually taught in the BSN program so that it is standardized and universities/colleges are turning out good quality nurses. Advanced degrees can and will give you individuals who want to move our profession forward and gain the respect it deserves. I am a Nursing Professional Development Specialist and I will ALWAYS push staff in my departments to better themselves because that improves patient outcomes. I do, however, understand everyone concerns about your years of experience. I can tell you that it will be the best investment you will ever make in your profession to gain a higher degree both for yourself and your patient. That is what people in my position are for, to help you find a means to pay for these degrees and help you discover the importance of advanced degrees.
Hey Andrew how about helping out the volunteer fire fighters and EMTs with a bigger tax deduction, nope can’t do that. Talk about debt. how much did that fiasco in Danmora prison chasings TWO convicted killers, how much did that cost the NYS taxpayers. good thing I have another Nursing License. time to move soon since there will be no one with good clinical skills to take care of ME!
I still recall when Prince Andrew’s father asked the NY Nurses union people something to the effect of (paraphrased) “so what do you nurses want, anyway?” Now, Prince Andrew, who (in the early 1980’s during a primary campaign against NYC Mayor Ed Koch) came up with a very ingenious slogan, is doing whatever it takes to get re-elected to a third term as governor and maybe a shot at the presidency. Folks will suck this up like it is a fine wine… a “free” one at that.
Good luck with all that (and keep on believing), you people.
This is obviously people making rules for others who are never on front lines with the troops. I feel if they had any understanding of RN shortage they would be attempting to make it easier for students to go to some great Diploma programs or Associate programs. I was a Naval Corpsman and after I served was hard enough to go 4 years part time and working to pay for a home to complete my associates program. This will only put a burden on people 40 years old trying to prepare for retirement and pay for their children to attend college. Who can take on another debt at that time in your life. Not only will this cause RNs to leave the New York state it will add to the already shortage of RNs in NYS.
NYS has both inexpensive tuition at public colleges and a new program to cover tuition costs in exchange for staying in state for a couple years and working after completing your education. Future nursing students will know the deal from the start. The limitation on new nurses is generally an inability of programs to offer more seats due to limited clinical sites and placements.
Boy did our Governor slip this one under the RADAR. You would think that spectrum news should be keeping an eye on Albany instead of the White House. Looks to me that the Governor needs to worry more about New York than what’s going on in Washington! I agree with EMT/RN, ONE MILLON DOLLARS A DAY to catch two convicted killers and one was a COP KILLER! which should have been executed per the law!!!! but he wouldn’t want to lose the NYC vote. A.S. and diploma nurses remember that 2018 is reelection year for our Governor. Get out and vote, and write letters, to your state assembly officials. I want a Nurse that can start an IV not the theory behind it.
I want nurses who can protect patient and population health and prevent the need for IVs. Relegating RNs to performing tasks in tertiary care, because they lack the skills and education needed to prevent people from declining into chronic illness, is demeaning to this wonderful profession. Nursing doesn’t need to remain a limited profession but it can’t advance without greater education. A BSN isn’t about theory, that’s all introduced at the Associates level because professions are built on a base of theory. A BSN provides practice experience and knowledge in areas which there are not time to do in an Associate’s program. Things like leadership, health transitions, informatics, how to use and participate in practice improvement research, community/public health nursing, and inter-professional collaboration.
Reminder: A lot of AD nurses have previous college education if not BA/BS in another field. What makes you think that a BSN is the only track that can provide the things you mentioned? I do not believe a BSN is the most beneficial or the only way to get these skills. It really depends on the RN (or even the person and their life experience) whether they have this knowledge or not, not just the degree. Life experience and nursing experience can provide this and much more. Although I respect anyone who is well read and studies, some people can graduate with a BSN and not have learned these things or not be able to put them in to practice.
Oh yes, once again Prince Andrew, the illustrious Gov of the tax you to death state creates another mandate that will surely do so much to improve the health and well being of his subjects,, I mean Citizens. A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away I was a young nurse turk. I took the one year program at BOCES to get my LPN license with the hopes of continuing on to earn my AAS, BS, and then my eventual goal of an FNP in Psyche. Until on a whim I took the exams for the telephone company, and passed all of them. This led me to a cross road of which path I should pursue, so I sought the advice of my Uncle Lenny, the Jewish Dentist. In his wisdom he told me that the pay and benefits package from Bell Atlantic was actually much better than what most health care professionals were getting. He also told me that if I took the money I would have to borrow for schooling, (along with it’s compounded interest for the 10 to 20 years until I could pay it off)and invested it in an IRA, I would be much farther ahead at age 50 than if I chose a career in the allied health trades. And god bless him he was right. I just got to retire 10 years earlier than If I stayed at the nursing home and went to college.
But enough of my story, back to the crisis at hand. AND I DO MEAN CRISIS. There already is a shortage of nurses in this state. This new unfunded mandate will only lead to more patient suffering, by driving potential nurses into other areas of study. The current compensation to cost of going into the nursing profession does not make it worth it compared to a Science, engineering, tech, or math related field. I cared about my residents at the skilled nursing facility I worked at, (Which closed 10 years ago because they couldn’t provide the level of care mandated with the funding they were given. This was a facility that had NO deficiencies on the state inspection for 4 years. When they finally got one it was for a HVAC filter that hadn’t been changed.) But money talks. As nurses are forced to spend outlandish amounts of money on education to keep their jobs many will abandon the profession like rats from a sinking ship. Out of my graduating class of 19, only 2 are still in nursing. I saw my friend working as a cashier at the super market, and asked her why she was there. She told me it paid better than the local LTC facilities.
My son just graduated from high school, and wanted to go to a two year RN program. While not inexpensive, it is NOTHING compared to the OVER $175,000 that it would cost him to get a BSN from Hartwick College. I told him I would send him to welding school for about $10,000. Don’t laugh. The welders on the pipeline are averaging 100k a year. If I put the other 160k in an IRA for him he will be a millionaire by the time he is 65. I was going to go back to school to get my RN, but now I think I’ll just buy a rental property with the tuition money. Either that a few luxury cars.
I love how the Gov is so eager to sign into law something else that will lower the standard of living for a predominantly female profession. Want to improve Nurses lives, oh, wise son of Mario?
How about a safe staffing law? How about giving the nurses a tax break for continuing education?
The fact of the matter is, if you are smart enough to be a nurse, you are probably smart enough to do something else that pays a whole lot better. And we wonder why the health care in this country is sitting in the bedpan.
You’re a little late to the party here Rob. The Governor signed this, he did not create it. The Legislature, Republicans and Democrats, created it after years of lobbying by the nursing profession which wants to increase it’s professionalism. Nursing is a lot more than emptying bedpans and foley bags. It’s a shame you got sidetracked by money issues but nurses aren’t in the profession just for money. It’s also about empathy, caring for others, trying to improve the health of the population and so on.
This legislation is about future RNs graduating from Associate’s Degree programs (there is only one very small diploma program in the state) going on to earn their BSN over the course of their first 10 years of practice. There are many colleges where they can do that and the number of BSN completion programs has been growing steadily as more and more nurses complete their BSN on their own or for their employer.
Picking a pretty expensive initial licensing BSN program at a private college is misleading in this discussion. You can’t borrow that much in student loans anymore. Most students who go to expensive private colleges get substantial financial aid packages from the colleges or have deep pocketed parents. There are a large number of public colleges in New York with very affordable tuition.
Nurses are lobbying for Safe Staffing. It’s pretty heavily opposed by the hospital trade organizations and the hospitals themselves. You know, they claim they can’t afford to pay for more nursing staff. I suggest you contact one of the unions which represents nurses and offer to come help with lobbying at the next Lobby Day in Albany. Maybe you were in CWA? They represent nurses in NY. They will appreciate your help.
Rob, I think I love you. Or I’m your long lost sister.
This is another reason why NO ONE SHOULD MOVE TO NY.
Our tax rate here is ridiculous. Sultan Cuomo should stop complaining about the Republican federal budget not allowing deductions of state property taxes over $10k, and start looking inward at WHY OUR TAXES ARE SO HIGH in NY. I have a 1500 square foot ranch on one acre, get no services, and my property taxes are about 10k/year. POLITICIAN, EXAMINE THYSELF.
I think this is in large part about the Albany Royals pandering to the unions…Do you know how much our teachers make in Putnam County??? But that’s another soapbox.
I got my psych bachelors right out of high school, and went back later, after kids, for my nursing ADN. I’ve worked as an RN for 15 years! Do I really need another English Lit or Astronomy course to make me a better nurse??? What about the value of actually working as a nurse for 15 years???
And if Andrew “Tax and Spend and Name the New Tappan Zee After My Family!” Cuomo raises the minimum rate to $15/hr, I think a lot of ADN RNs will leave and get a spot slinging hash browns at Dunkin’. Lots less stress.
I know I’ll be grandfathered in, but this whole thing makes people look down on the ADN. It’s much like what they’re doing to the LPNs here in NY. First, the hospital where I worked got rid of our LPN staff, told them they could work as techs and take a pay cut, or leave. This increased the RN workload, because you KNOW they didn’t hire more RNs, because we cost too much! Then they started only hiring BSN nurses and pressuring the ADNs to go back to school. I can only imagine that soon they’ll require the doctorate and there are like 100 nurses to go around.
The BSN, in my experience, wants to be an administrator, not a direct patient-care nurse. And when you’re working 3 and 4 12-hour shifts every week, plus taking care of a family, who’s got time to go back to school?
I’ve worked with damn good LPNs and I’ve worked with some BSNs and MSNs who were dumb as rocks and I seriously wouldn’t trust to feed my goldfish. I don’t think you can judge the worth of anyone by the string of letters behind their name. All RN candidates pass the same licensing exam. I think continuing ed is a great thing, and very necessary, but this is ridiculous.
My tech staff worked hard and respected me because they knew I’d never ask them to do anything I wouldn’t do myself. I helped them with all their tasks. Many BSN/MSN nurses think they’re above the bed bath and diaper changing.
I just hope I die at home in bed, alone, thankyouverymuch. But it won’t be in NY- I can’t afford to retire here! Thanks, Cuomo, for pandering to the unions.
Did anyone else notice the author of this article is a PHD who is in nursing education? Makes me wonder when the last time she emptied a bed pan or drained someone’s foley bag? It builds character. For sure. Did you see the courses listed at the end of this article? “RN to BSN: Aligning Your Personality Characteristics with Your Career Goals (1 contact hr)” Hummmm? I wonder how this will make my life easier? Or how it will help the old man with the impaction? My personality characteristic is I have a very thick skin, I don’t mind doing dirty jobs, and no gag reflex. I wonder how much this contact hour will cost me? For the level of education the average RN has, they do so much more for the patients than the PT with the PHD.
Maybe I should go into OT. I need a real racket.
OTA an associates degree program with way fewer responsibilities than an ADN has gets paid more buthan no one is suggesting all OTAs become OTs in 10 years. Also OTAs make over 10-12 dollars more right out of school than an even a BSN RN does, what gives?
The problem I have with this, is the same NCLEX-RN exam is taken by both ADN and BSN graduates. If there is such a big difference between ADN RN’s and BSN RN’s, then shouldn’t there be two different licensing exams?
So lets think about this, So your a RN in NYS with a diploma or AS degree, and you now have to get a BSN. You work 12 hr shift then have to go home maybe do laundry feed the kids etc. then you have to study and write a paper, up to midnight. go to bed, up at 6:00 AM. Is this the Nurse you want to pass your meds, mix a drip? might be a little sleepy?
EXACTLY!!!!
For what? An extra dollar an hour from the hospital where you’ve already been working and gaining experience for years?
I’ve been an RN graduating from a Catholic diploma program 45 years ago. We lived and were taught by the nuns. We went 3 strait years with no summers off and were taught science courses by professors from a university. We would spend clinical days on the unit and classes evenings. It was very intense and we studied constantly or we would have failed. They turned out very good and caring nurses and it is sad these programs were eliminated because someone decided nurses should have a BSN. I worked with and directed many BSN nurses that did not have the critical thinking skills, dedication and accept the responsibilities they should have to be a good nurse and patient advocate. I will put my knowledge and experience up against a BSN anytime.
I’ve been an R.N. a long time and found it very frustrating when a younger nurse couldn’t do simple tasks that were required. Foley’s and lines. They couldn’t through things going on with the patient in order to help them or even report it so the patients Dr could help. Ex totally unresponsive to pain not reported to Dr
I agree, nurses should be required to have their Bachelors specifically in Nursing! It protects the field, and refines the practice! Physical Therapists protect their field, because their requirements are high! You can’t become a Physical Therapist through becoming a Physical Therapist Assistant first! In many cases we’re doing the same jobs, but there are too many pathways, and the quality suffers!
When I read articles like this it make me glad I am at the end of my long nursing career. The ANA came up with this idea of everyone in nursing should have a BSN when I was in my senior year of a 3 year diploma program in 1968. For some odd reason the belief seems to be that we did not get an adequate education in a diploma program. I beg to differ with that thought. We attended school for 36 months straight with a 2 week vacation annually. I was taught by highly educated individuals including many with PHDs. My graduating class scored the highest of all schools in the state of Connecticut on our licensing exams regardless of whether it was a bacalaureate or diploma program. While I understand that the days of a dilpoma program are numbered primarily due to litiginous concerns that hospitals do not want to undertake, I think this ill thought out legislation will leave us with fewer nurses than before if it is not grandfathered for those who have been in nursing for many years. I feel many will leave the profession due to the burden of this law or perhaps pursue other careers less demanding that are more lucrative.
These are the facts: This entire BSN debate was initiated by a published 2003 “study” from a nursing professor who was the head of the nursing department at the University Of Pennsylvania. It was not original research. The authors simply took the template they had for a previous study on nurse to patient ratios and mortality rates and by their own admission, manipulated the data no less than 133 times supposedly without bias to make it fit the mold for the BSN study. The authors also admitted to excluding hospitals that didn’t fir their data set. They took all this manipulated data and ran a logistics regression model to see what might happen if they was a 10% increase in BSN RNS. The study lumped BSN, MSN and nurses with doctorates in one group and ADN and diploma nurses in another group. it was not known how many nurses in the sample were originally ADN nurses who went back to get their BSN’s. BSN’s who earned originally earned diplomas or ADNs likely had more experience because they would have been working as nurses before getting the BSN. So the study used flawed sampling methodology because many BSN nurses were originally ADN nurses who went back to get their BSN’s. The opposite is not true- BSN’s don’t go back to get their ADN.
So the study doesn’t even compare the relative levels of RN education. “Also, BSN/ MSN nurses tended to work in the high tech/ teaching hospitals and to have lower ratios of nurse to patient 4:1 as compared with the ADN at 8:1.” “Mortality rates increases with age. The study states that the average patient age in the hospitals with more ADNs is 61.9 years, while the average patient age in the hospitals with more BSNs is 57.3 years.” the study wasn’t designed to test real conditions. The study was designed to create hypothetical situations and comment on the validity of said models based on highly modified and incomplete data. THIS STUDY SPECIFICALLY COMMENTS ONLY ON HYPOTHETICAL SITUATIONS. Study Disclaimer: ANY RELATIONSHIP TO REAL CONDITIONS IS ONLY IMPLIED BY THE AUTHORS.
Finally, this study was supported by all those with a pro BSN agenda such as the AACN, ANCC, IOM and ANA and peer reviewed most likely by those with like-minded objectives. “And even after all the data manipulation, there were still ‘clusters of data’ that had to be ‘standardized’ using ‘robust estimations’. The study does at least have the guts to admit that such ‘standardizations’ turns the final conclusion into an ‘estimation’. Too bad it only makes that admission in the body of the study, and not in the ‘abstracts’.”
There was no objective search for the truth with this unreplicated study yet the dubious results accepted carte blanche as “gospel truth” which resulted in this policy change.
STOOOOOPIDDD!!! With all the talk and data of nurse shortages, this will now create more. All those that wanted to get into healthcare and saw an opening through 1yr and 2yr education, cert. or degree, will no longer consider it. There are many who just don’t want to continue with years more education. And there is only single sided data that claims exclusive benefits to having BSN, so don’t fall back on that empty slanted argument. North Dakota learned the hard way and it took years to recover from that blunder. Maybe NY will reconsider, but I doubt it since the governor and legislator is too focused on themselves and their political career than making educated decisions.
Most RN-BSN programs contain courses such as “Theoretical Foundations for Nursing”, “professional Ethics”, “Research Methods”, “Current Issues In Nursing”,” Nursing Ethics”, and my all-time-favorite; “Sociology of Nursing” which are devoid of any clinical or for that matter, real world value at all; especially since these courses are all incorporated into any basic nursing program because without them, the program would not qualify for accreditation. Nurses with many years of experience have already shown they have the ability to adapt to new technology and can continue to adapt. There is no RN-BSN program that can teach that.
The entire push for the BSN was initiated by one study which was used in an effort to increase revenue all the way from the nursing organizations to the magazines that sell advertising space to schools offering BSN and RN-BSN programs to the companies that sell textbooks. There are many players and angles here. But one thing they made sure they did was to convince mindless hospital managers and executives that a BSN makes a better nurse so that diploma and associate programs would be made to look inferior thus giving prospective nursing students very few choices other than the ridiculously high-priced four year college and university nursing programs.
Remember this disclaimer statement which is in the study itself because it is significant stating that the study is only commenting hypothetical situations:
Study Disclaimer:
ANY RELATIONSHIP TO REAL CONDITIONS IS ONLY IMPLIED BY THE AUTHORS.
That statement has been ignored by the ANA and all others engaged with the BSN push. Remember that the IOM based its recommendation that 80% of nurses have a BSN by 2020 solely on the 2003 Aiken study. And as I stated above, it was not original research. It was published simply by copying the data from a template for an earlier study on nurse to patient staffing ratios and mortality rates in general, then telling readers there was no biasness in manipulating the data, then running all the manipulated data through a logistics model to see what MIGHT happen if there were 10% more BSN nurses in hospitals.
And this is what was used to change nursing law in New York!
Now New York State has to make school nurses mandatory.
State legislators as well as the Federal government will be contacted. They are going to be informed about who, how and why the push for the BSN came to be. The information above will be shared with them. I take it that very few of them took the time to extensively research the BSN push. I encourage all nurses to get involved because if you think it will stop here you’re mistaken. The same people who are benefiting from driving the BSN push; their next move is to try to have someone publish a similar study that will try to drive nurses back to school for a master’s degree. And that came from one of the nursing elitists involved with driving the BSN push.
I have read many of the prior posts and need to comment on NYS “free” tuition. The Excelsior Program recently implemented is very limiting. You must complete your chosen program in 4 consecutive years. This excludes most of us RN adult learners. If you have taken an extra semester along the way to complete an associates program you are also excluded. Your household income must be less than 100k. I learned this recently the hard way when at first was told my son would be a candidate for the NYS free tuition but because we had private paid for a semester, he changed his major as a freshman, we will not qualify for even help with tuition even at the bachelor level.
Suck it up buttercups! Getting a higher degree is necessary in this country anymore. I have a bachelors in both nursing and psychology. Seems like a Masters is the new Bachelors. I don’t feel like I’m worth much until I get that now. So we keep going. Don’t let this discourage you. If this is the job you really desire and you are doing it for the right reasons, you will do what you need to get the certs you need to keep it.
You’re buying into this degree elevation garbage. Haven’t you yet realized what everyone already knows; that it’s all about money, nothing else. The BSN does not produce better nurses; it produces more debt for the nurse; that’s it. Also read the recent reports about grade inflation in schools.
LPNS are irrelevant at this point. ADN programs should be phased out as well.
BSN should have been the standard a long time ago.
Someone made a comment that making BSN the standard will cause a shortage and discourage people from coming into the field of nursing. I disagree about the shortage because there is no shortage. Even if we focused on BSN nurses alone… As far as discouraging others from coming into the field, that’s EXACTLY what should happen.
There are too many halfway nursing programs, bridge programs, online programs, etc etc… No one has to really work hard to be a nurse anymore. Anyone can get into the field. Hence why there are so many idiots rushing into it.
ADN programs (bridge, traditional, or otherwise) should be done away with… As well as LPN programs.
If nursing is supposed to be as respectable and as protected as society portrays it to be, the nursing field need to have more serious education and licensing requirements.
And to the person who said LPNs are more knowledgeable than paramedics but get paid less, research before posting. Paramedics are not EMT Basics, there is a difference. Paramedics have ATLEAST a year of the actual paramedic program, but they have to become EMTs to even get to that point. So, that alone takes over a year. The scope of practice of an ACTUAL paramedic is larger. Research all the things that they can do but you can’t. And unfortunately, LPNs are paid more.
Paramedics are needed as are nurses with BSNs… LPNs have been phased out of alot of healthcare settings for a reason.
I became a BSN nurse because I wanted to practice as a real nurse with good pay and have the ability to practice in whatever I wanted. LPNs can’t do that because of how limited they are in their scope of practice and how limited their careers are in general. It’s a joke.
Anyway, hopefully the US as a whole do away with bridge programs, ADN programs, LPN programs, online nursing programs and all that other garbage and make BSN the standard. And then maybe country by country this can be a trend.
As a bsn I prefer to have lpn around because they are a great help and keep the work load down.
If this is going to be required, then the state needs to require employers pay the Nurses appropriately for their advanced education.
If you have any doubt as to why they’re pushing people to go back to school:
“200 college and university campuses have closed during the last 10 years due to decreasing enrollments as baby boomers aged” (Nursing Spectrum, Jan. 9, 2012).
“For the past 40 years, institutions of higher learning have been relentlessly replacing professors on the tenure track with contingent faculty, typically part-timers, who cost a whole lot less” (The Weekly Standard, Nov. 16, 2015).
“Hard Times on Campus – Declining Enrollment Means Declining Revenue For Colleges” (Philadelphia Inquirer, Jan. 31, 2016)
Their answer to this is degree elevation and putting more people into student loan debt which is already above 1 trillion dollars.
Interestingly, the author of this article works for a major university.
All the great arguments about not getting a BSN are true. But we are talking about new york state and its just another way to make more money.
As a working nurse for 38 years, I have never once had a patient need me at their bedside to discuss statistics, biochemistry, communication theories, nutritional analysis beyond basic nutritional needs, trends in computer technology, or writing a paper in APA format. These are all of the subjects and criteria covered in my process of getting a bachelor’s. I thought it would be interesting and a kind of growth, so although I am grandfathered in, I began the process. After getting halfway through, I’m deciding I would rather learn how to blow glass then put any more intense effort, time, and thousands more dollars into it. In my opinion completing the bachelor’s would not contribute to being an excellent nurse in significant ways I truly can think of. This is really about it being a cash flow generator, not about what nurses really need to work.
I’ve been a RN with an AAS for over 13 years now, I looked into getting my BSN and the curriculum, besides an extra chemistry class, statistics and another 1 credit online nursing class the rest was all filler and elective classes. Now how is that making you a better nurse. I’ve worked with some awesome knowledgeable LPN’s that could run circles around some BSN RN’s that I have worked with. Stop getting hung up on the letters after your name. The experience you bring to the table and in your job is what counts, because at the end of the day a BSN RN and an AAS RN is still a staff nurse. Quite frankly the pay is the same, there may be some positions that might pay you a bit more, but the rule applies, the patient doesn’t care if you took another chemistry class or statistics, they care about helping them or saving them. This is about money, doesn’t make you a better nurse. If I want to further my career and become a teacher or an NP then yes of course more schooling is needed, beyond that it all comes down to money. Sorry folks your BSN doesn’t make you a better nurse than us AAS nurses.
The BSN issue goes far beyond NY. I am an ADN nurse with 30 years experience who will be relocating to a town with one major hospital system. This hospital system is on the Magnet track and will only hire RN’s with a BSN. If you have a ADN you have to be enrolled in a BSN program within 4 months of hire and obtain the BSN within 4 years. The preferred education for this facility is a masters degree and required is BSN. However, they have plenty of LPN jobs advertised for their clinics and doctor offices. I never thought I would be faced with this situation. I am 55 years old and planned on working as a nurse for another 10 years before retiring. My current job is in the finance department in denials and I have done this for 8 years. I am an expert in what I do and a BSN would not do one thing to help me in my current position.
They completely deleted all the associate nursing degrees in Canada & it was a huge mistake! Considering that a BN program starts in Sept. but ends in March each year and the AD students continue till the end of June and no one ever talks about this. Add onto that, 10 years experience and plus?? It’s all these stupid PH.D. nurses like the one that wrote this article that get these ludicrous ideas! They know NOTHING about working at the bedside of sick patients nor will they ever! (being babysat thru the BN program doesn’t equate to real nursing either!).
Now there is a nursing shortage again in Canada! There are so many more attractive degrees women can get that don’t require life and death responsibility, working every 2nd weekend, all but 2 major holidays per year, every 2nd Xmas etc. etc. I was an RN for 30 years and loved parts if my job without a doubt. Would I get a BN if I was starting out? Absolutely NOT!!!!
Anyone can look up the analysis of Linda Aiken’s so called so-called peer reviewed study where she takes a previous study on how nurse-patient ratios affect mortality rates, then cuts and pastes the information to try sell the notion that healthcare facilities with more BSNs experience lower mortality rates, and they will realize it for what it is that is nothing more than a piece of propaganda to drive people back into struggling four year schools as well as line the pockets of schools and hospitals by helping to push the magnet status fallacy.
The authors even admit (buried in the study itself) that they used a regression model; not real patients in real hospitals to see what MIGHT happen if hospitals had a 10% increase in BSN prepared nurses.
I became an LVN 31 years ago, then got my ADN 8 years later. In my experience the VERY, VERY best nurses started out as CNA’s, then they worked as LVN’s (LPN for many of you), and finally obtained their ADN. The skills and experience those persons brought to the job can not be taught in a BSN program. New York has made a choice that hopefully will not become the new trend. If there is doubt about the quality of our current nurses, then set standards for required ongoing competency exams.
Agree with Carol. Specialty certifications that show extra focused education, training and competency in specific areas of nursing such as ICU, Cardiac Rehab, Emergency Room Nursing are far better than BSNs. My question is; where are all the retired nurses as well as those who moved on to other occupations rather than deal with this nonsense of forcing nurses in their 40s and 50s to take out $20,000 of student loan debt to something that has no patient care or real work value. Why are they not speaking out against this; especially if they’re no longer in the profession and don’t have to fear consequences.
Has anyone seen what undergraduate nurses get to practice on while in school? Automated robots that bleed, give birth, urinate, ect. Its not the degree, its the worth of the school. These programs are designed to get the NCLEX pass rate to 100%. I got my degree in 1993. We worked in the hospital on real people who bled, pooped and threw up on you. The new nurses that come out of these programs get on a med/surg unit petrified, get discouraged and go back to school after one year to get their NP. Then they REALLY know nothing and have an advanced degree.
I was precepted by the best LPN that ever lived, she taught me how to manage my time, prioritize and care for my patients. We use LPNs constantly in my field, they lighten the workload for the RN and are task oriented which makes them so skilled in wound care, foleys ect.
All states need to develop a professional development pathway that takes dedicated persons from cna to rn.
Im from California and the current system allows for me to become a cna, do 54 months of work as a cna and a 54 hour pharmacology test and i can then apply to test as a lvn.
However once your a lvn you cant progress to rn with just work experience so a working nurse has to quit or work a minimal schedule to try and get into a rn program which are highly impacted from anyone thinking ” oh i want to make $ so i guess nursing” and then we get tons of people tied up in the first year of nursing programs that never complete the full 2 or 4 year programs when they find out what nursing really entails.
Sure there are lvn to rn bridges and supposedly california has a 30 unit option but is always space available so you have thousands of lvns that want to progress but get stuck in a lottery system at state schools and may wait over 7 years to get into a rn program or they are paying 70,000 for a asn program that other bsn schools dont consider as valid schools.
The other issue is military persons who are medics or corpsmen or lvn/lpns need to do 20 years of service to qualify to test as a rn but 1 year to qualify as a lvn.
Basically here in california the big difference between lvn to rn is a lvn can start an iv and monitor it and give blood or fluids but the rn is needed to do iv antibiotics or other meds.
RNs that do anything else that is considered specialty ie- er, icu etc have their rn license and then do additional training and obtain additional certifications.
We need to thru at least california setup a ” american made nurse program”
CNAs should work for 54 months in a variety of settings and then take a 1 year part time course maybe a class a week and include a 100 hour pharmacology course for eligibility for lpn/lvn testing.
LVNS right now if you have 15 years of consistent licensure and never lapsed and are in good standing with iv/bw certification and have done any professional development beyond lvn ie- wcc, cws, dsd, rac-ct, etc then you should be upgraded to rn diploma status in this time of need ( with a limitation of working in skilled nursing / home health or med surg only acute care to take a burden off current rns in those setting so we can use current rns to address those needing higher acuity care and to replace those rns getting ill before we have a overwhelming shortage ) and be required to complete a part time program of 1 class per week to address a bridge from lvn/lpn to rn within 3 years of your upgrade.
if you dont complete it you return to lvn/lpn licensure.
RN’s should follow ny protocol and have a bsn within 10 years of inital licensure since bsns are earnable online so a rn can progress at their own speed and cost.
This needs to be enacted asap, please use these people who are hard working and skilled thru both class and life experience.