In this week's episode, Cara is joined by Dr. Shakira Henderson, to unpack the challenges and opportunities facing new nurses as they step into today’s complex healthcare landscape. The conversation dives into why many graduates feel unprepared for clinical realities, despite strong academic backgrounds, and explores the steep learning curve and high turnover rates in their first year. You’ll hear eye-opening insights about how current training often falls short in immersing students in interdisciplinary collaboration, leaving gaps in practical experience across departments. The episode also tackles the heavy documentation burden nurses face and why current tech solutions aren’t quite hitting the mark yet. Cara and Shakira discuss the urgent need for clearer role definitions to support fair nurse reimbursement, and reflect on the impact of losing seasoned mentors during COVID-19. Wrapping up, they highlight innovative dual roles for staff and faculty that could energize nursing education and build stronger connections.
Episode Overview
Dr. Shakira Henderson is a transformational nursing leader, healthcare innovator, and academic executive with more than 20 years of experience in nursing education, practice, research, and health policy. She serves as the Dean of the University of Florida College of Nursing and the System Chief Nurse Executive for UF Health, the first person to hold both roles at the same time. A distinguished scholar with multiple advanced degrees, including a PhD in Nursing, DNP, MPH, and MBA, she has led national advocacy efforts, governance reforms, and mentorship programs. Recognized with more than 50 awards, Dr. Henderson is a highly sought-after speaker and serves on numerous boards, advancing the future of nursing leadership and healthcare innovation.
Key Takeaways
- 00:12:13 - Despite high pass rates and strong didactic training, new nursing graduates often feel underprepared for real-world clinical practice due to limited hands-on experience, leading to steep learning curves and early turnover in their first year.
- 00:18:13 - The complexity of modern healthcare environments requires nurses to understand interdisciplinary roles and systems, yet current nursing education does not adequately immerse students in collaborative, practical experiences across departments like pharmacy, lab, and supply chain.
- 00:26:35 - Nurses face excessive workloads, with up to 60% of their time spent on documentation; while AI and technology offer potential relief, current solutions often require as much time to edit as manual charting, highlighting the need for more effective unburdening strategies.
- 00:33:06 - For nurse reimbursement models to succeed, nursing must clarify role definitions and levels of care, as payers require clear distinctions between LPNs, RNs, and advanced practice nurses before implementing direct compensation for nursing services.
- 00:47:03 - The loss of experienced nurses during COVID-19 has left many new nurses without seasoned mentors, resulting in increased stress and a "blind leading the blind" environment that threatens retention and quality of care.
- 00:49:07 - Dual roles that allow hospital staff to also serve as faculty can help bridge the gap between clinical and academic settings, fostering stronger connections for students and addressing the shortage of nursing educators by making teaching roles more attractive.
Episode Transcript
Cara Lunsford (00:18.186)
Okay, you know what, on all of our correspondence and all of our internal dialogue and everything, everyone's like, Dean Henderson, Dean Henderson, Dean Henderson. And I was like, I almost wanted to call you Dean, but it's Shakira, it's Shakira Henderson.
Shakira Henderson (00:32.935)
my goodness. Yes! And isn't that more of a fun name?
Cara Lunsford (00:39.106)
Shakira's way more fun than Dean. Well, I know we were supposed to do this a few weeks ago and we had a snowstorm.
Shakira Henderson (00:41.647)
I thought so.
Shakira Henderson (00:49.569)
Yes!
Cara Lunsford (00:53.422)
And I, you know, it was crazy because I was sitting inside. I flew all the way to North Carolina once a month. I have to fly to North Carolina to be in the office, be at headquarters. And I flew all the way there from California and I was in the office one day and then.
Shakira Henderson (01:13.347)
and you brought the snow.
Cara Lunsford (01:15.084)
And then I apparently I brought the snow from Los Angeles because why not? And then so for the remainder of the time, I was stuck in a hotel working remotely and I thought, well, I could do this from home. What am I?
Shakira Henderson (01:30.875)
You know, and see, it's my old stomping ground. We never get that much snow. So I am suspicious.
Cara Lunsford (01:38.968)
Yes, yes, you should be, you should be. And you know, they call it, I can't remember what they called it. I want to call it like Snow Again, or I can't remember what it was called. It was something like, because apparently many, many years ago, there was like this huge.
Shakira Henderson (01:48.539)
It must have-
Cara Lunsford (01:59.904)
I don't know if it was snow, but what happened was all these cars slid off the road. There was black ice. There was abandoned vehicles. There was things on fire. It looked like it was terrible. It was terrible. So ever since then, I guess they just, everything just locks down. No one goes anywhere. It's all over.
Shakira Henderson (02:06.211)
Shakira Henderson (02:11.634)
nightmare.
Shakira Henderson (02:19.159)
And did you get the driving in Raleigh? Do you see why it not locks down?
Cara Lunsford (02:26.606)
I'm not sure I don't understand the driving in Raleigh. I'm not gonna like totally put them on blast, but...
Shakira Henderson (02:30.351)
That's what I'm saying. That's why they had to lock down because it would have been another tragic event.
Cara Lunsford (02:37.326)
It would, it would. And I couldn't bring myself to one of one of my coworkers said, I'll meet you at the content studio and and they'll let us in and we can do this. And I was like, there is no way I'm going to risk your life for for my podcast interview. I'm not going to do it. So I all that being said, I'm so happy that you're here with me today.
Shakira Henderson (02:48.825)
No.
You
Shakira Henderson (03:02.253)
I am too, this is exciting.
Cara Lunsford (03:05.47)
It's very exciting. there's something, I mean, I just really love talking about the new generation of nurses, the struggles.
that we're facing because I think it's really, really important for people to understand. So I would like to first introduce you to our audience, Shakira Henderson. So go ahead and tell us a little bit about you, where you're from, some of your history in this industry, and then we'll jump in.
Shakira Henderson (03:41.787)
I hope.
it. So I always like to start with the obvious. I am originally from the Caribbean island of Dominica. So if you detect an accent, that's where it's from. But I always like to say Dominica is not Dominica Republic. Even though my name is Shakira, I can't dance or sing like her. did live in Miami for 20 years, so I know the bad words in Spanish, but I don't fully, fully speak Spanish. And that's why I became a nurse. I also like to share that I am a second career nurse.
I didn't actually start off in nursing. I wanted to be a mad scientist and I loved science until I realized the cells didn't talk back and I'm a very social person. I love to talk to people and I actually fell into nursing walking to my lab and I looked up and I saw a poster that said nurse researcher and I went I can actually talk to people while I do research. So I did a little crazy thing. I was doing my masters of anatomy
and my Masters of Public Health and then I enrolled in the accelerated nursing program. So 36 hours, very interesting time. I don't actually remember that time very well, but graduated with three degrees including my nursing degree at the same time. So two masters and one undergraduate in three years. We will not talk about what happened in those three years, but here I am and I ended up...
Cara Lunsford (05:10.028)
That's wild!
Shakira Henderson (05:11.291)
It is it and I can tell you I have no recollection of those three years
Cara Lunsford (05:16.15)
I bet you don't. I bet you don't.
Shakira Henderson (05:18.403)
collection. And so I, of course, coming out as a new nurse, wanted to do neonatal. I wanted to be a NICU nurse so bad. And it's funny because I ended up as a new grad getting into NICU, but I got in because the entire night shift had quit. Now in retrospect, I should have asked some questions, but I didn't. Lucky for me, it worked out. So I ended up getting into NICU. We were a great cohort, had a great entry.
into nursing and I pretty much just you know went through the ranks manager became a nurse scientist of the hospital so I achieved my little dream of being a nurse researcher and then got recruited all of this happened in Miami got recruited to North Carolina that's how I know so much about rally drivers and continued to do system nursing leadership there and then ended my career in North Carolina actually doing a dual role
it looks like I love duality in my life, doing multiple degrees at once, doing multiple roles at once. I actually ended my career in North Carolina being the vice president for clinical research for UNC Health and then also being the assistant vice chancellor for clinical research for UNC Chapel Hill. So always marrying the practice and the academic setting. And I think that's what recruited me down to UF Health because I got the opportunity to be
able to bridge nursing practice and academia which nobody in the country right now is doing but is so needed. So currently I'm the Dean of the College of Nursing but what's unique about my role is I'm also the system chief nurse executive for UF Health. So much like medical schools where the Dean is the CEO of the hospital, we are trying to model that approach where nursing, our largest group of healthcare
professionals can marry and have a professional home with a nursing school. So I came to Florida to be able to see this model out and really look at a pathway where we can have that integration in nursing. So I am super excited about the possibilities.
Cara Lunsford (07:42.316)
That is amazing.
Shakira Henderson (07:44.955)
I am, I am excited, sink or swim, but I'm excited.
Cara Lunsford (07:48.002)
And it's so cool. And you know what's so funny is that like when you said you like duality, right? And you know what immediately came to my mind is I wanted to ask you what your astrological sign was.
Shakira Henderson (07:54.981)
Yes.
Shakira Henderson (08:00.965)
Gemini, are you surprised?
Cara Lunsford (08:03.426)
You know what I do? You know, here, here's the funny thing is I'm going to ask you about what your sign is and I'll have absolutely zero idea what that means. Because I, but I'm fascinated by it because I always think when I'm talking to people and this actually might be the very first time that I've asked a podcast guest what their sign is. But there was something about how you said duality that I thought, I wonder if that has to do with her sign. I'm going to look it up later and.
Shakira Henderson (08:29.987)
Yes, it probably because Gemini, they have two different, they like different. Now you're gonna make me look it up. It's a twins, it's Gemini. my goodness. And I have never connected that before. Huh, I love it.
Cara Lunsford (08:34.806)
Is it twins? Is that the twins?
Cara Lunsford (08:43.746)
I'm just saying.
I'm just saying. So I'm a Libra, but I'm on the cusp of Scorpio. And I love balance. diplomacy and I love balance, but I'm also little fiery too, as you can probably tell. So clearly I'm on the cusp. But as most of the listeners know, I'm a little woo-woo too. So I love a little woo-woo.
Shakira Henderson (08:58.415)
D-D-D-D-
Shakira Henderson (09:09.765)
Hey.
Cara Lunsford (09:14.736)
This is so fascinating, because I really want to dig into this a little bit more. And I don't know how this actually relates. So I went to school at LA County School of Nursing. So it was the allied school of nursing. And it had been around since, oh boy, like the early 1900s, maybe the late 1800s.
Shakira Henderson (09:34.66)
time.
Cara Lunsford (09:38.114)
Yes, so for a very, very long time, they were graduating students. It started out where it was kind of like the diploma program type of thing. that was how nurses moved through. And at the time, that was an associate's degree. But we did all of our nursing.
Shakira Henderson (09:46.998)
Okay.
Cara Lunsford (09:59.624)
at County Hospital. So we were just basically connected to the hospital and we had this relationship with the hospital. And even after we graduated, there was a lot of incentives around continuing to work for County because they would do loan forgiveness and they would do all kinds. So it was a really, really great, they were invested in us and we were invested in them.
Shakira Henderson (10:01.403)
Bye.
Shakira Henderson (10:13.978)
Hmm?
Cara Lunsford (10:26.174)
And I thought, is a great, this is kind of how it should be. So tell me how it relates. How does that kind of relate?
Shakira Henderson (10:32.069)
Thanks.
my goodness, you have no idea how that resonates. You know when they say the old becomes the new again? I think you know where we're now seeing bell bottoms are coming back in. So it's the same. I love bell bottoms. I just can't fit into mine, but I love it. But you know, one of the things that I will say is that that is that exact model is being looked at again. I know for sure with our College of Nursing, one of the things that I have heard, not just with our
Cara Lunsford (10:40.727)
Mm-hmm.
Cara Lunsford (10:45.27)
I love bell bottoms.
Shakira Henderson (11:04.443)
college or do new grads is that they don't feel like they get enough practical experience. So we do a phenomenal job. Our NCLEX pass rates at 98 percent. My goodness, they have the knowledge. But and we're way above the national average. We've always been. That's phenomenal. But I cannot be naive in saying that our students are not saying that they want a little bit more hands on experience. And, you know, the nice thing about my role as a system
Cara Lunsford (11:22.734)
Hmm.
Shakira Henderson (11:34.346)
Chief Nurse Executive, I get the opportunity to hear from students from all different schools when they start in the hospital. And what we're realizing is that, yes, we're training nurses in a nursing school. We're giving them the didactic. That's fantastic. But they're not getting as much practical hands-on experiences for multiple reasons. I think we have to look at that model as well. And so when they come into the hospital, we technically have to train them.
what it's like to be a nurse in real life, so to speak. And it's a steep learning curve for them. And what we're seeing is that our nurses, who used to turn over in two years, are turning over in their first year. Because it's not what they, they didn't expect some of the challenges that they are experiencing. One, maybe because they don't feel as skilled. It's a very complex healthcare system. They probably didn't have practicums.
in such complex areas and now they're expected to be able to do that. They may not have nurse residency programs. So there are so many factors that face our new nurses that I quite frankly and yourself might not have been able to face. So being able to be more connected with our hospitals so that they can have more hands-on training, we can have nurse residencies is a model that I think we have to look for in the future.
Because we're doing a great job with NCLEX. I think we have a roadmap as to how to train our nurses with didactic. We are struggling with the clinical area because our nurses are not coming out to be practice ready, as practice ready as we would like them to be. And that's what we're seeing in the hospitals. And now we have to spend money to train them, which is interesting.
Cara Lunsford (13:04.033)
Absolutely.
Cara Lunsford (13:19.992)
Yeah.
Cara Lunsford (13:29.326)
Right. that's, know, so when I think about like 17 years ago, when I think about what my experience was, you know, when I graduated from nursing school.
I had, I mean, and I talked to new nurses about this. I'd say, you know, when I was in my fourth semester of nursing school, I would go to county and I am not joking. Those county nurses would hand me six charts, charts, like actual charts, not on a computer, six charts. And they were like, good luck. And they would leave.
Shakira Henderson (14:03.641)
That's amazing.
Shakira Henderson (14:11.259)
you
Cara Lunsford (14:12.65)
And I would, and by my fourth semester, I was taking care of six, sick patients, okay? Diabetes, D and T's, know, any, because these is county. You know, these people have disease progression to the Nth degree. You know, they, because they don't come to county until their leg is falling off.
Shakira Henderson (14:21.787)
See?
Shakira Henderson (14:39.214)
That is wow. I know it.
Cara Lunsford (14:39.414)
You know, it's like it started out as a splinter and now it's it's M.R. It's staff, you know, and it's all the way up the leg. So because they can't afford to miss work, they can't afford to. So they they don't come in until the.
Shakira Henderson (14:51.483)
It's true.
Cara Lunsford (14:54.764)
literally, you know, it's really, really bad. You've got metastasized cancer. You've got like, you know, all of this stuff. So when I was having to learn how to read through these charts, because I had to read the writing, it wasn't printed. It wasn't in a computer screen. I had to spend time actually reading the charts, reading the orders and
Shakira Henderson (15:09.785)
Mm-hmm. Exactly.
Cara Lunsford (15:21.038)
and then going and actually doing the work and having my clinical instructor come up and do rounds with us. But by that point, we were responsible for those patients. And then we would give report at three o'clock to the nurse who basically came back and was like, all right, so how'd it go? And.
Shakira Henderson (15:30.169)
Sure.
Shakira Henderson (15:41.829)
See?
Cara Lunsford (15:42.926)
And that was it. And then I went to work for Children's Hospital Los Angeles and I had the luxury of a residency program. So I had all that experience. then I went to the and so I felt like a very competent nurse. And and stayed at Children's for eight years before I moved on to doing other things.
And so I really think that this is so incredibly important to the sustainability of this profession. Like if you're going to talk about retention, you're just.
Shakira Henderson (16:18.903)
I agree and you know it's funny because on Friday, just last Friday, we had a symposium with multiple deans and some clinical partners about this and I'm going to tell you a little bit of pushback we got from your story. One of the deans stood up and said, we need to stop talking about nursing of the past because nursing of today is completely different than nursing of the past in terms of complexity. You know, I agree with that.
some extent, but I also have to push back on that because I actually do not think that our practical preparation is actually adequate enough for nurses today. And I'm going to give you a nice example that I actually shared with them. did the keynote. I said to them, let's look at pilot training. So we took simulation from pilot training, if you remember, and we infused it into healthcare. Fantastic. So let's look at a pilot and the training for a
And I put up all of the training. I've looked up all the training for the pilot So one of the things I noticed is that they don't just learn how to fly a plane They actually have to know whether they have to know about the engines. They have to know about the airport They have to know about all these things in order to be a pilot and that's their didactic and then they have training Now let's talk about new nurses because they said let's not talk about you know a time back in nursing when we had paper
chart that is it is way more of a complex environment. I point taken. And I put up a picture of current state, very complex. But we don't actually teach our students to be infused in that. Our students come in and they may have a few hours here and there, 12 hours if they're lucky, the opportunity to do some practical things if they're lucky, if the nurse allows. But yet they're in a
complex environment where they have to know about nutrition, environmental, pharmacy, but we don't actually train them to be able to understand how all of these different areas actually intersect. When was the last time nursing students went to a lab, went to pharmacy, went to biomedical, went to supply chain? And then we say, dare nurse, graduate, and go into a hospital which you didn't spend as much time as you needed to or had practical experience.
Shakira Henderson (18:48.453)
And we're saying collaborate with all of these allied health professionals and you should know what to do because you're the nurse and you are the center and you're the facilitator.
but we don't do that with any other profession. And then I'm gonna be a little controversial, just a little controversial. I also pulled up medicine and I said to them, we are saying, okay, with the NCLEX you're ready to practice. Well, when you pull up the physicians and we can do the same for the nurse practitioners because they have a didactic exam as well, physicians spend 15 minutes at most with patients.
Cara Lunsford (19:05.995)
Yeah, do it.
Shakira Henderson (19:29.117)
most hours with patients at 1,750 plus hours a week. We have a didactic exam. They have a three-step exam that includes assessment of their practical. So how does that work? And I know I'm gonna get a lot of pushback and fire for this, but are we really setting up our new nurses for success? More complex healthcare, less clinical hours, only a didactic exam. What are we doing?
we sit and we say, my God, we have a nursing shortage. Our nurses are living in the first year. Well, they will. And the other thing I said to them, said, you know, for a very long time, I didn't understand why we called nursing frontline workers. Well, let's think about this. Work-based violence is really off the chain right now. We heard about the West Palm nurse, Leela Lau. So I'm a new nurse coming in. I just saw Leela Lau. All of her bones in her face are broken.
Cara Lunsford (20:06.007)
Of course.
Shakira Henderson (20:28.993)
and she potentially might be blind. Then COVID, I remember when COVID came and guess who was the first healthcare professional who got it? the nurse. Let's go back to Ebola. I remember on the news, everybody said the physicians are taking care of Ebola, but guess who got Ebola? The first healthcare professional, a nurse. So when we say frontline, is it because we're fighting a war? Is it combat? Because it sure feels like it. And how are we?
Cara Lunsford (20:39.212)
nurse.
Cara Lunsford (20:47.841)
nurse.
Cara Lunsford (20:57.634)
Yeah, exposure, just exposure, right?
Shakira Henderson (20:58.823)
preparing, it's just exposure. How are we preparing our new nurses to deal with that environment? What part of that is part of our NCLEX curriculum? And so, you know, there's a lot of things I think we can do to be able to support our nurses to be prepared so that they stay. And that it starts with looking at how we train. Yes, the didactic is great, but we need more practical hours and we need more of what I call the hidden curriculum. How do we
teach them resilience? How do we teach them how to take care of themselves? And then I'm gonna put a little bit of onus on the hospitals. And I was very un-provocative in saying this. Who is to say that we shouldn't be sleeping on nights? I don't know. Who said that? If we're supposed to be about wellness, why does it feel like healthcare is the most unhealthy and the least caring? So, you know.
Cara Lunsford (21:53.336)
Yeah, I just interviewed somebody who is a has their PhD in sleep study and at University of Washington. And we talked about night shift nurses. We talked about sleep hygiene. We talked about all of these things. And yes, why shouldn't there be a place where you can take that 20 minute power nap? Because it's healthy for you and it's
Shakira Henderson (22:19.045)
Mm-hmm.
Cara Lunsford (22:22.336)
It's safe. It's safe for the patients.
Shakira Henderson (22:25.303)
It's safe. So what are we doing? We're saying, okay, we're going to kill our nurses so that we can have 24 hour coverage. I just think that, you know, this is my new term. We need to change the prescription in nursing. It's time. It's not working. So.
Cara Lunsford (22:37.954)
Yeah. Yeah. It's not working. you are a hundred. This is the this is this is such a powerful conversation. I've talked to I don't even know how many people I've had. I've interviewed so many people. And honestly, I feel like many times there's all this kind of dancing around. We dance around it and we dance and and I I'm like you. I'm a very like.
Shakira Henderson (22:59.003)
You're wrong, the issue.
Cara Lunsford (23:06.142)
Let's call it like it is. This is not working. Okay. And you can say, well, let's not go to the past or let's not do this or let's but but here's the thing. Let's take from the past what worked. And then you add in components so that you are in the 21st century. And you say, Hey, we've got AI, we've got virtual reality, we've got
Shakira Henderson (23:07.631)
what it is.
Shakira Henderson (23:20.953)
what worked exactly.
Shakira Henderson (23:34.811)
Mm-hmm.
Cara Lunsford (23:35.82)
You know, and yes, no one should have to read through, you know, handwritten charts. And that's not a good use of the we shouldn't go back to that. imagine how many mistakes were made just because you couldn't the writing wasn't legible, you know. So no, we don't go back to things like that that didn't work. But you exposure, you have to know what job you're getting into.
Shakira Henderson (23:44.919)
Wait.
Shakira Henderson (23:49.061)
Please.
Cara Lunsford (24:04.694)
And I don't know why, I don't know if it's liability. I don't know if it's mainly that the hospitals are like, look, we're gonna lose our nurses if they're forced to train these new nurses. So we don't want them to have to train or be responsible for these students. And what if the student does something wrong? Who's responsible for that? The licensed nurse who's there?
I think sometimes it goes back to fear, right? Liability. And that has really restricted us in so many ways because guess what? That liability is coming one way or another. Okay? You either train the nurse or if you don't train the nurse, guess what's going to happen? There's going to be an error. There's going to be an error.
Shakira Henderson (24:36.207)
Yes.
Shakira Henderson (24:47.419)
Yes.
Shakira Henderson (24:56.079)
You're going to feel it when they come exactly.
Cara Lunsford (24:59.848)
one way or the other, you're getting liability.
Shakira Henderson (25:03.289)
And you know what I've heard? I'm not sure. I know that we have liability coverage. I think that the nurses are burnt out, for lack of a better word.
they see sometimes students as an extra. And so I think we have to start thinking about in the hospital, we have AI, we have new technology. How do we unload the nurse from all of the tasks that they have to do? Documentation being one of it, I understand that 40 to 60 % of a nurse's time is in documentation. So how do we unburden them with AI?
Cara Lunsford (25:44.814)
Yeah.
Shakira Henderson (25:47.094)
know there's ambient technologies coming where you can talk and it automatically charts. But what some folks are finding is that the going back and editing that is actually the same amount of time you would take to chart it. So I think the future is bright with adding AI and technology. But we also have to think about how do we unburden the nurse? Because right now, I think we've reached a nexus of our nurses have so
Cara Lunsford (26:06.242)
Mm-hmm.
Shakira Henderson (26:16.997)
many different tasks and things that they're doing that to your point they now cannot they don't feel like they can take on a student.
Cara Lunsford (26:26.008)
Yeah. And you have to incentivize people. You know, I think that it's been, do remember that saying like, Mikey will eat it? You know, as you're talking about the cereal. And, I'm aging myself just by, just by saying that you should have, you should have been like, I have no idea what you're talking about, Kara. Who's Mikey? That's what you should have said.
Shakira Henderson (26:29.218)
Mm-hmm.
Shakira Henderson (26:36.271)
Yes!
Yes! I should have said, don't know what you're talking about.
Shakira Henderson (26:52.672)
Yes, I should have said, Swanky.
Cara Lunsford (26:54.402)
Mikey, I so if you don't know who that is, know, go look it up. But the the thing is, is that I think for a long time, it's like, well, the nurse will do it. The nurse will do it. The nurse will do it. The nurse will do it. So it's like, who's going to handle dietary stuff? don't worry, the nurse will do it. And housekeeping. Let the nurse do it. You know, so any time they needed to add something, add something,
Shakira Henderson (27:15.375)
I want the nurse to do it.
Cara Lunsford (27:24.336)
that's what they did. They did it to the the nurses. So of course at some point, and I think nurses actually love to teach. I think they love, I think they love to educate. Yeah, I think we love it. It's just that we don't love it when we have so many other things that have been added to our plate.
Shakira Henderson (27:33.293)
my goodness, that's what we're born to do.
Cara Lunsford (27:45.89)
We're not incentivized. It's not like, hey, you're going to be, you're going to teach today. So we're going to like minimize your patient load. You're only going to have this many patients so that your load is minimized so that you have the time to teach.
And we're also gonna say like, you know, anything else that you would have to do today that is not entirely necessary if it's a training or this or that, you don't do it. You don't have to do anything that's not absolutely necessary. Your focus is really to train and to make sure that you have safe patient care. That's it.
Shakira Henderson (28:25.187)
And Carol, let's talk about that because, you know, one of the elephants in the room is that we are not directly paid, or the hospital, I should say, is not directly paid, or healthcare systems, clinics, care settings are not directly paid for nursing care. So if we know that one of the prime roles is teaching and we know that if we educate patients, and I'm not saying that education is the only piece that will support them to do better
they leave the hospital after they leave the clinics, but we know that spending time with patients and making sure they understand what they need to do can make a difference. So how do we actually push for nurses to be reimbursed on nursing care? To be reimbursed like the physicians? Because we know that they...
Cara Lunsford (29:16.12)
Do you know, have you listened to Rebecca Love? Did you listen? Yes.
Shakira Henderson (29:19.047)
Yes, and so this is you know, this is something I've been saying for decades So I am I'm excited to see that it is it is Imperative, but you know one of the things I I have told folks It's okay for us to talk about it But we actually need to get models that are willing to try it and so I think that is a huge a huge a huge barrier or opportunity I am sure
that you know a bunch of CNOs can get together and we can try you know potentially looking at nursery reimbursement and what that could look like.
Cara Lunsford (29:58.294)
So you would have to get the buy-in from insurance carriers, correct? I mean, so that's where you really have to get the buy-in. And if you could...
Shakira Henderson (30:02.571)
Exactly. Yes.
Cara Lunsford (30:10.494)
it could be a really compelling case. If you could just pilot it and show that, hey, this is beneficial for the insurance companies too. You're going to actually save money. And we can show you that you can save money in these other areas by making sure that like.
these because it's the health of the health care system, right? Like you need to have a healthy health care system in order to be able to provide, you know, good quality patient care. And everyone needs to kind of win, right? Because an unfair. Yeah. Yeah, we are a capitalist nation, right? So this is a business. Yeah. And we we can try to like.
Shakira Henderson (30:36.054)
Yes.
Shakira Henderson (30:49.987)
Yes, exactly! Which is the point?
I'm learning.
Cara Lunsford (31:00.576)
I'm very altruistic and I love to be able to see how, hey, if a business can thrive, so can everyone that works for that business and the people that are affected by that business. And I think that that's a good model. Then you can't have greed, right? Greed ruins all of that. Greed ruins everything. It's like somebody's trying to take too much and not give back, right? Not give into the system.
Shakira Henderson (31:21.271)
everything.
Cara Lunsford (31:30.122)
So I mean, I think right here we're saying to the payers, we're saying, work with us, buy into this model.
Shakira Henderson (31:38.176)
Yes, work with us.
will actually help with quality because we know that the nurses spend the most time with the patient and so everything will work really seamlessly and for the insurers they will have patients who are more compliant because they have education and I'm gonna get a little controversial again Kara. I also think that we have to do the work in nursing because here's what the insurers are gonna come back and tell us. What's the definition of a nurse?
Is it an LPN? Is it an RN? Is it an RN with a BSN? Is it an RN with an MSN? Is it an RN with a PhD? What is, is it a CNA? Like what is exactly a nurse? So I don't want to push it off on the hospitals and the insurance companies. I also want to call on nursing to say we have to do a little bit of cleaning up ourselves. And I'm not making any
recommendations as to what that looks like, but I just want to offer this. When you talk about a physician, everybody knows that's an MD. There's no multiple layers. So when you talk about payers paying, the payers want to know what they're paying. you know, so we have to think about that as well. We have to do a little bit of work.
Cara Lunsford (32:58.732)
Yeah. Yeah.
Cara Lunsford (33:05.278)
So let's imagine it for a second. Let's play out that scenario. So let's say, based off of what I've learned from Rebecca Love, commissioned for nurse reimbursement, I interviewed her a while back. It was a great interview.
Shakira Henderson (33:18.053)
Yes.
Shakira Henderson (33:22.851)
I have to go back and listen to that.
Cara Lunsford (33:24.206)
I love it. I love I love her. She speaks a mile a minute. So you have to slow her down at half the speed just to pick up everything she's saying. But yeah, she speaks. I don't know how fast her brain runs, but her mouth is able to keep up. She is. She's totally passionate, but it's it's fascinating. Right. So but if we play out the scenario, right. And we say.
Shakira Henderson (33:31.863)
I'm gonna go listen to it.
It's working! She's passionate!
Cara Lunsford (33:50.88)
that the hospital should not have to see nursing as a cost to them, right? That there should be a benefit to them, okay? And so let's say, for example, you've got a floor with, let's say, 10 nurses, okay? And it's a 50-bed floor, okay? There's 50 beds on the floor. We're just gonna pretend, okay? Maybe this is a skilled nursing facility. It's awfully big.
Shakira Henderson (34:08.507)
Mm-hmm.
Shakira Henderson (34:14.863)
Yeah.
Cara Lunsford (34:18.51)
I just I just moved from acute. So some of them are. Yeah, some of them are. OK, so I'm thinking to myself, I'm like, I wasn't on a floor that was that big. for the sake of dividing, I'm trying to divide well is what I'm trying to do, actually. So I'm going to say like there's about five patients to every nurse. Right. OK, that that's the ratio. And.
Shakira Henderson (34:19.909)
big floor. But you know what? The floors are big nowadays so actually not. Yeah.
Shakira Henderson (34:31.845)
But you know what? Nowadays, yeah.
You
Cara Lunsford (34:47.89)
So, but let's say, for example, that we are adopting having more LVNs in the acute care space, because that is something that I think is we're moving in that direction a little bit more. I'm a huge, I like it. I personally love team nursing. yeah.
Shakira Henderson (34:54.17)
Right.
Shakira Henderson (34:59.276)
yes, yes.
Shakira Henderson (35:07.279)
We know that's what works.
Cara Lunsford (35:09.204)
it works. I think it really works well and it really divides those areas. It's more collaborative. There's a lot of talking, obviously, that has to happen. You need to be communicating about a patient's need and making sure there's that division of care.
Shakira Henderson (35:24.879)
Yes.
Cara Lunsford (35:28.684)
that it's, you know, all of that communication is going back up to the registered nurse so that they can, they can case manage and they can care plan and they can communicate with. So, but let's say, for example, that you have a few LVNs on the floor, right? And, and so you're dividing up that care a little bit. How, how do you imagine that it would work in terms of how you would bill for that? Like, how do you picture it?
Shakira Henderson (35:33.071)
Yes.
Shakira Henderson (35:57.072)
So you know, we actually already have a model for that. You one of the things that I always try not to do is reinvent the wheel. Think about it. We already have a model for that. We have nurse practitioners who work with physicians. And so we technically already have a model for Harrison RN and Harrison LPN. And they're working together much like an MD and a nurse practitioner. And there are two ways that sometimes that happens.
Sometimes the RN is the one that bills, sometimes the nurse practitioner can bill and then the MD comes around and cosigns on it. So we technically have a model that we could potentially use.
Cara Lunsford (36:45.762)
Yes.
Shakira Henderson (36:46.851)
And it exists and it's in the system and it's a potential to be able to have it to use. And you know what? I have never thought about that like that before. Carrie, you're incredible. Because... my goodness.
Cara Lunsford (36:53.165)
Yeah.
Cara Lunsford (36:58.478)
Welcome to our interviewing process.
Shakira Henderson (37:05.155)
I don't know that we've ever thought about it like that. I have been thinking how on earth are we going to define nurse? But it means that we also have to define all the levels of care and be able to have a model as to how that billing should work. But when you think about nurse practitioners, PAs and physicians, that model already exists. O-N-G, Kara, you poof.
Cara Lunsford (37:24.214)
You are absolutely right. You are absolutely right. And you know what? Honestly, I hadn't thought about it. You were literally creating that as we were having this conversation.
Shakira Henderson (37:36.321)
Yes! And I'm thinking, wait a minute, the success! my goodness. Yes! This is, yeah, we're gonna have to patent it.
Cara Lunsford (37:40.258)
Yep. Yeah, you created it like right here. You just manifested it.
I think it's such a great because I'm totally, I believe that there's so many things that already exist and you just have to figure out how you can rework things. And like you said, it's already happened, right? Like there's nurse anesthetists, there's nurse anesthetists and there's, yeah.
Shakira Henderson (38:04.623)
Yes.
Shakira Henderson (38:11.543)
Yes, that work on the anesthesiologist. That, exists.
Cara Lunsford (38:16.906)
It exists. And so I imagine that it can't be that difficult to really just have that trickle down a little further into and maybe it just trickles down to to to LVN. I mean, maybe that's the way it work. And and and that's OK. And that's a good place to start.
Shakira Henderson (38:19.247)
this.
Shakira Henderson (38:34.191)
Right, right, and maybe that's it. And that's a good established, know, most people may have or may not have, but that's a good basis.
Cara Lunsford (38:46.272)
It is a good basis. And so it would be so compelling to be able to take that model and say, look, we're just going to take what we know already works and break it down to these other sub-specialties, these other licenses, and see what could happen.
Shakira Henderson (39:07.643)
Thanks.
Cara Lunsford (39:11.276)
Maybe I need to connect you with Rebecca Love. The two of you are gonna make this happen.
Shakira Henderson (39:11.309)
I love that. I know!
my goodness, and you know what I'm thinking though, you know, one of the things I guess critiques might say is where's the money going to come from? But when we think about the gains in quality of care, the gains in decreasing mortality, readmission, decreasing length of stay, we have been going at these nurse-sensitive indicators and these quality indicators for years. At one point, you know, for myself, I sit in board
meetings that I'm like every day, CAUTI, CLABSI, mortality. When are we going to get it to the point where these things exist but they're not a problem and that might be it. Right!
Cara Lunsford (39:58.178)
You have to show it's profitable, right? Like the only way forward and it saddens me to say this because I wish it was like, this institution has the best outcomes or this institution has the best outcomes and the best retention of their staff. And that that was.
Shakira Henderson (40:07.759)
It's...
Cara Lunsford (40:24.096)
literally the benchmark for what you know what is considered like the gold standard this is what we should be aiming for. Unfortunately it's all those things and are you in the black?
Shakira Henderson (40:37.997)
Right! And here's another thing to consider. What a lovely way to show value to nurses than to have them have their own reimbursement instead of coming in with the bed. Just think about that.
Cara Lunsford (40:50.626)
Yeah, instead of feeling like you're,
you're a cost to the system, it already makes you feel devalued in a way. it's like, how can I, instead of how can we utilize you in all of these wonderful ways, because that's beneficial to us. It's kind of like how we end up prioritizing these really amazing surgeons, right? Like you bring in the best of the best surgeon. And what do we think? We think,
Shakira Henderson (40:55.577)
Right.
Shakira Henderson (41:01.203)
Yes!
Shakira Henderson (41:19.707)
Right.
Cara Lunsford (41:23.606)
well, you bring in the best of the best surgeon, then we're going to get all of these patients that want to come to our institution to get that cardiothoracic that open heart surgery, or to get you know, because they know that those surgeons bring money with them. So if suddenly, people were
Shakira Henderson (41:34.255)
Best care.
Cara Lunsford (41:48.632)
flooding to your hospital because you had the best nurses because you're, you know, because you knew that you were going to get exceptional nursing care, five star nursing care, right? People would, yeah.
Shakira Henderson (42:00.124)
And remember the nurse spends the most time with you. I would definitely go there.
Cara Lunsford (42:06.37)
People would travel, right? My wife asked me the other day, if something happened to our son, where do I take him? And I'm like, well, you take him to Children's Hospital. That's where you take him. And I said, unless it was an emergency, have to call 911, then they take to the most local hospital. But I was like, you take him there, because that's where he's going to get the best care as a child. So yeah.
Shakira Henderson (42:20.527)
Yeah, they do.
See?
Shakira Henderson (42:30.489)
And Karen, I'm gonna be honest with you, everybody has the hospital they want to be taken to. It's funny you said that because my husband said the same thing. He's like, if something happens to me, take me to X. Everybody has those hospitals and why? It's because of the care.
Cara Lunsford (42:36.067)
Yep.
Cara Lunsford (42:40.035)
Yep.
Cara Lunsford (42:47.222)
because of the care. It's because I would say number one thing people well I'll say a couple of things because I have someone in my family right who has had to go through the health care system quite a bit and loves UCLA loves loves loves UCLA and
Shakira Henderson (43:04.827)
Peace.
Cara Lunsford (43:08.046)
If you ask him, the first thing he'll tell you is the food. That's actually the first thing. That's the first thing he'll say. He'll say, I, I, I love, I love the food there. They give me a menu. I can choose from the menu, what I want. They, somebody just doesn't bring me in. What is there for the day?
Shakira Henderson (43:13.403)
but that's important!
Note to self, that's important.
Shakira Henderson (43:30.873)
You what's there.
Cara Lunsford (43:32.694)
and the food is really good quality. So, and then second, the very second thing he'll say is that the nurses all seem like they want to be there.
Shakira Henderson (43:43.056)
that's scary, Kara. I thought you were going to say the nurses are nice. So what you're telling me is that our patients are now perceiving whether we love our job or not. And that's very different for nursing.
Cara Lunsford (43:54.808)
Yep. Yep.
Cara Lunsford (44:00.29)
Yep. Yeah. And that's what he will say. He'll say that it actually he says it really seems like they love where they work. Seems like they love their job. And I can I feel that when I'm there. And so I think that that's but that all ties back to everything that you said, even in the beginning is about where you start as a student. There's no way you're going to love your job.
Shakira Henderson (44:03.867)
I
Shakira Henderson (44:20.571)
Mm-hmm.
Cara Lunsford (44:29.358)
If it's so stressful and you feel like you're constantly gambling your license and the lives of other people and the safety of other people, there's no way that you're ever going to be able to love that.
Shakira Henderson (44:29.613)
if it's stressful.
Shakira Henderson (44:37.147)
Mm-hmm.
Shakira Henderson (44:46.021)
And you know what's interesting? And I think you probably felt the same way. You never feel fully prepared, but you should never feel so much fear that you're unable to continue. And that's, you know, that's unfortunately where we are for a lot of people today. And it's a sad day for nursing, but it's a great opportunity for educators and practitioners to be able to come together and try to solve this.
Cara Lunsford (45:04.226)
Yeah.
Cara Lunsford (45:15.126)
Yeah, to make real change. And I really think that you're on to something. And I love I love what you're doing to really change this ecosystem.
Shakira Henderson (45:28.879)
We have to, I don't actually feel like it's an episode of Survivor. We have to do it, otherwise we're not going, we're gonna lose a whole generation of nurses. And that is very scary.
Cara Lunsford (45:41.41)
Yes, yes, and we lost a lot of senior nurses during COVID, right? So we had this mass exodus of people who were like, I was close to retiring. Now guess what? I'm out.
Shakira Henderson (45:47.82)
absolutely.
Shakira Henderson (45:56.173)
even now.
Cara Lunsford (45:58.902)
I'm out. I'm not this is it's not worth it. I don't want to do this. I'm not a canary in the coal mine. I don't want to do it. Right. And so and so they they they're out. So not only like when I was a new nurse, I came in and I had people around me that had 20 years, 30 years, 40 years of experience. When I was freaking out about something I had, you know, I had Tommy Covington
Shakira Henderson (46:06.843)
Great.
Shakira Henderson (46:20.665)
this.
Shakira Henderson (46:25.275)
you.
Cara Lunsford (46:28.816)
This amazing nurse who'd been at Children's for 40 years and started in the Navy. And I just remember him putting his hand on me. And he's just like, it's going to be OK. It's not the end of the world. So you forgot to do that, you know, that flush after the you know, he's like, it's OK. It's not the end of the world. And I my, you know, I.
Shakira Henderson (46:49.573)
be okay.
I've been here 40 years, I know.
Cara Lunsford (46:56.492)
Yeah, you're you're like, all of a sudden, your, your nervous system just settles. You're relaxed. You're like, Okay, it's gonna be all right. I got this, maybe. And it's, it's so true. But right now, it's the blind leading the blind. Right? A lot of that.
Shakira Henderson (47:05.945)
I got this, maybe.
Shakira Henderson (47:19.003)
We're having, it's just fascinating to me because I came in, I always say it's the golden years and I know I get pushback on that too, but I came into nursing where it was actually hard to find a job.
because there were so many nurses. I even remember I worked for this one healthcare system that had given 150 nursing scholarships and they did not have positions for them. And so they brought them into this big conference room and I'll never forget it. I was working for the healthcare system and they said, you have a free nursing degree because there were no positions for them. I know it's hard to believe now because we're
such a tragic nursing shortage, but that's when I came into nursing. And so to think between now and then what happened is devastating.
Cara Lunsford (48:19.34)
And we're not getting enough educators either, right? So that's the other side of it.
Shakira Henderson (48:22.601)
my goodness, my goodness, there's so many factors. You know, most people will not want to come and work in a nursing school when they can make sometimes twice as much in the clinical setting. And so that's something we have to bridge as well that I hope through my dual role that we can actually create more dual roles so that we have our hospital staff being also faculty to be able to support that.
mission. And again, it's what you said in the beginning, Kara, our students will feel like they have a home. They're not just a student, they're coming in and they are part of UF Health and they will build that connection while in school so that they can feel more connected and more grounded when they graduate. So again, it makes me feel like the old is becoming the new again.
Cara Lunsford (49:18.19)
Wouldn't it be amazing if UF Health was saying to their nursing students, we'll also give you healthcare while you're in nursing school?
Shakira Henderson (49:27.963)
my goodness. So here that is a novel idea. We do give scholarships, but what a what a novel idea.
Cara Lunsford (49:35.022)
What if you had healthcare? What if you had healthcare? What if you could come and feel like I can get, you know, my primary care?
Shakira Henderson (49:40.091)
I like that.
Shakira Henderson (49:44.988)
Kara, you know, you are onto something. Yes, I love that. Kara, that I've never heard that idea before and I love it. I'm going to credit you with it if I steal it. I'm going to credit you. I'm going to say Kara. This is the Kara Care model. I'll just name it after you. I'll just, I'll just the C squared. I'll name it after you.
Cara Lunsford (49:48.118)
I think we're onto something. See, this is what I love. You know, it's so amazing.
I think you can totally steal it. It's all yours. On our podcast, this is the Cara-Care model. Cara-Care.
Thank you, thank you. Well, you know, it was so funny because when we were, when I was initially talking to Aaron Lay, who made this introduction and all this stuff, he's so lovely, and he said, I hope you don't mind, but I gave them a list of questions that I think that you'll probably touch on, and I said, oh, Aaron, you don't know how I work at all, do you?
Shakira Henderson (50:34.811)
And I am a conversationalist, so my people were like, no. So it was a deadly connection.
Cara Lunsford (50:42.358)
I was like, we have the...
It's a fly by the seat of your pants type of experience.
Shakira Henderson (50:48.417)
Yes! I don't even think they sent it to me because they know I am a... We will go with the topic at hand.
Cara Lunsford (50:54.318)
Like, we're not going to follow. I told him, said, first of all, and you'll probably find this interesting, I never research the people that I'm going to interview. I know your name and I know where you work.
Shakira Henderson (51:05.667)
I love that, I love that.
Shakira Henderson (51:12.259)
that.
Cara Lunsford (51:12.608)
I don't know anything else about you because I really love to, and I've said this before on other episodes, I love to be pleasantly surprised. I love to listen and hear what you're saying and start to discover ideas while we're here. Let it just unfold naturally.
Shakira Henderson (51:35.419)
my gosh, what great ideas we had today, Kara. I am writing down. Now I'm going to go to UF Health and ask them. You have created a monster here.
Cara Lunsford (51:40.078)
We had amazing ideas. No, I think I would love. You should you should.
I know, I know, but imagine you could probably recruit so many new nurses with certain models. Like if you were to say, hey, how do we differentiate ourselves in this market? How do we bring people in to want to come to UF? Right?
Shakira Henderson (51:58.694)
Yes!
Shakira Henderson (52:08.667)
That's a big, that's a big, and you know, and what's important to them? Because it may not be scholarships, because maybe they can get, you know, grant funding. It may be, to your point, health insurance. It may be rent. It may be food. I mean, there's so many things we've not thought about.
Cara Lunsford (52:15.34)
Yeah.
Cara Lunsford (52:28.568)
Well, think about what you're spending. Think about the travel nurse expense, right? We know how much it costs to bring in travel nurses. We know what travel nurses are looking for. They're looking for stipends. They're looking for, you know, so they're looking for all these things in order to, and they're saying, well, who's going to give me the better X?
right? And so I think that maybe if we do the math, right, and we say, how much can we put in?
And what will it yield for us? And how does and then if they do, then we say, okay, you come and you work for us, you commit, you commit an X amount of years because we've committed to you. So now pay it back. You come for X number of years. And the likelihood is, is that many of them will probably stay. Yeah.
Shakira Henderson (53:16.705)
X amount of years.
Shakira Henderson (53:29.327)
Well, stay. Yes, I agree to that. And you know, it's really funny to think about that. I mean, that is such a novel idea, Kara, to think about how do we design it in a way that meets the specific need of the student that allows us to be able to build and connect with that commitment. And one thing I will say is that because we're in such a global world, look at me, a Dominican.
Cara Lunsford (53:52.45)
Yep.
Shakira Henderson (53:59.214)
as the Dean of the College of Nursing. We're global. We also have to accept that our nurses will leave at two, three years because the world is also not what it used to be. I heard New Zealand is now accepting our license. I don't know how true that is, but there's so much more opportunity now for our nurses and there's so much more mobility. But how can we keep nurses at least for two to three years and build an environment that they want?
Cara Lunsford (54:01.698)
Yeah.
Cara Lunsford (54:12.216)
Yep.
Shakira Henderson (54:29.117)
to stay but also be open to the fact that they may travel. I mean they may want to travel and we shouldn't be you know we shouldn't be so upset about that. That is we're in a global world. Yes we're in a global world.
Cara Lunsford (54:30.435)
Yeah.
Cara Lunsford (54:35.074)
Yeah. Well, it's, yeah.
Cara Lunsford (54:41.42)
You should feed their soul. You have to feed their soul. So maybe what it is is that you come, maybe there's childcare, right? Or there's a stipend for childcare. Maybe there's some sort of part flexible schedule. Maybe every year you get to do, you know, some sort of mission trip if you choose to do it and you're, yep.
Shakira Henderson (54:51.37)
Bye!
next to my schedule.
Shakira Henderson (55:02.831)
that I actually spoke about that. I love that because that's so important. So your nurses of the year, of the month get to go. Yes. Cara. Cara. Yes, yes.
Cara Lunsford (55:08.782)
You have to feed the Yep. You get to feed your soul. You have to. But that's how people stay, right? Because I actually heard about a place once that did dry cleaning for their nurses. Yeah. All you had to do was bring your clothes, drop them in a bag. And then literally, you would come back and your clothes were done.
Shakira Henderson (55:25.239)
That is amazing.
Shakira Henderson (55:35.699)
funny we do that for the surgical areas. You ever think about that? And labor and delivery. So what's stopping us for doing it for all?
Cara Lunsford (55:44.547)
Yeah.
that you could just, you could, because it's about like little things that actually make a difference. You know, there's like these, these food delivery services, right? If you're working all the time and you're, you're, still a female dominated industry. There's things like Home Chef, right? Where Home Chef, like you, you know, you work partnerships, you, know, with these different companies that will do food delivery for you. And it's like, how great would it be if you were going to you?
Shakira Henderson (56:03.365)
Yes!
Cara Lunsford (56:14.992)
and it's like, well, if I go to UF, not only do I have, I've got food delivery, I've got some laundry, they give me a stipend for even housekeeping if I wanna use it for that. There's things that you could really incentivize. Yeah.
Shakira Henderson (56:16.485)
You are the whole show.
tree.
Shakira Henderson (56:30.135)
incentive and you know what that now gets to healthy and caring
Cara Lunsford (56:36.588)
Yes. Yes. Then you feel cared about.
Shakira Henderson (56:39.611)
Kara, my goodness. Then you feel cared about and it helps you to be more healthy. Because your well-being is being fed. Kara, Kara.
Cara Lunsford (56:44.91)
Mm hmm. Yeah. Yep. Free food in the cafeteria, right? Free food in the cafeteria, like when you're working.
Shakira Henderson (56:53.595)
Well, we know some folks who do get free food. I won't call any names in some systems.
Cara Lunsford (56:57.998)
I know. I know, but see, like the nurses are hardly ever going to take advantage of it because they rarely take their break. But you should still give it to them. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I don't know. We're going to do it. We're going to do it. I think.
Shakira Henderson (57:05.275)
They really take their breaks. But you should still offer it. Yes. I love that. don't care. I love it. Now you've given me some ideas and I'm going to I'll get back to you. I'm like, guess what? I am super excited.
Cara Lunsford (57:20.918)
I cannot wait to hear what you do with this and I'm so excited and I can't wait to introduce you. Like if you don't, if you haven't met Rebecca, have you? I'll introduce you. I'll introduce you. She's amazing. She's amazing. Well, this is there anything else that you would like to make sure you say to, mean, I think this is a compelling.
Shakira Henderson (57:31.323)
I've never met her, no! Oh my god, you have to, you have to, you have to.
Cara Lunsford (57:48.586)
argument that if you're even looking to go to nursing school you should go check this out because I think this is the place you should be going right?
Shakira Henderson (57:52.654)
Yes! my goodness.
I just, you know the only thing I like to say is that, and I say this all the time, nurses are never at the table, but we're always on the menu. So I am going to ask our nurses to just pull up a folding chair to the table if you're not invited. Because we're always, we're never invited to the table, just like we're not invited to the reimbursement table, but we're on the menu.
Cara Lunsford (58:17.216)
I love that.
Shakira Henderson (58:26.854)
you know, pull up a folding chair.
Cara Lunsford (58:30.594)
I love that. I love that. That's such a great end to this really beautiful and incredible conversation. I feel so blessed and fortunate and everything to have been able to sit here and have this wonderful conversation with you, Shakira.
Shakira Henderson (58:51.323)
It is ditto. Thank you, Kara, for just inviting me to this awesome space. It's not a lot of times as nurse leaders, we get the time to just sit and converse and really come up with some ideas. So I am even more grateful to you because this has been food for my soul.
Cara Lunsford (59:15.874)
That is the biggest compliment ever. And it's why I do what I do. And I absolutely love hosting this podcast. And so that is just such a huge compliment. So thank you so much. spent a whole hour with me. Now.
Shakira Henderson (59:32.291)
Yes and they went by so quickly you know when when you're having fun
Cara Lunsford (59:37.184)
right when you're having fun. Well thank you so much. I cannot wait to hear more about what you end up doing and anything that we can do to help at nurse.com please do not hesitate to ask.
Shakira Henderson (59:50.344)
I am going to be sending your outcomes. I'm like, Karen, look what we just did.
Cara Lunsford (59:55.244)
I can't wait. can't wait. Anything that we can do and if there's help that we can do from a CE perspective or discounts or whatever, please reach out. Please let us know. And thank you again. Have a wonderful rest of your week.
Shakira Henderson (01:00:11.236)
You too and it's Wednesday right? No it's yeah it's Wednesday so happy Wednesday. I know it's it I'm ready for happy Friday's eve. Awesome have a good night it was so nice meeting you take care okay bye.
Cara Lunsford (01:00:13.706)
It is. Happy Happy Hump Day.
Me too. All right. Well, thank you again. So nice. Take care.
