Episode 6: Power of Nursing Certification

Cara Lunsford, RN (01:13.142)
You're a nurse, we're not saving lives here, okay? There's no, we're doing a podcast.

Hollye Briggs (01:18.275)
Yeah, there's no one dying. that's what I told myself. was like, surely Kara will understand when I send her a message and go, well, I'm trying to figure out how to take down a firewall. know, like, no big deal.

Cara Lunsford, RN (01:32.354)
Yes, as one does, as one does takes... Well, I'm happy to see you and you look lovely and I love your hair. Like you have like awesome, you have awesome hair.

Hollye Briggs (01:35.311)
Today, today, today one does.

Hollye Briggs (01:42.949)
Thank you. I love yours.

Thank you. I decided that, you know what, since I had a few grays, I might as well just go all in to changing the blonde to gray. So my hairstylist, she's lovely and she understands that while I fully support the aging process, I would like to ease into it as much as possible versus waking up one day and going, So, you know.

Cara Lunsford, RN (01:59.415)
I love it.

Hollye Briggs (02:16.478)
So she's easing me into it, you know.

Cara Lunsford, RN (02:19.273)
I love that. have, you you can't see because I shaved them all off. This is what this is how I deal with my white hair. So I'm I'm naturally red. OK, I have naturally red hair, but I dye it blonde at which my mom is always like, you have this beautiful red hair. Why do you do that? And I'm like, because we never enjoy like what we what we're actually given at birth. Right. So but my hair is as a redhead.

I'm gonna go white. which at some point will catch up maybe with the platinum. I'm hoping it, yeah, that it'll all weave in naturally. Exactly. But I do have a lot of white on the sides, which is really funny because when I shave my head, it just looks like patches of like nothing. Like there's like no hair there. That's what it looks like.

Hollye Briggs (02:57.156)
It'll just all...

Hollye Briggs (03:11.972)
No, one of my brothers has like a, he has like a streak of white. honestly, I think it looks great on him, but when he gets his hair real tight to his head, it's just, it's like a streak. I'm like, yeah, it like he has that wet.

Cara Lunsford, RN (03:13.933)
Thank

Cara Lunsford, RN (03:25.014)
just like blank, nothing, just nothing. I know it's kind of awesome and also a little weird. Well, as one does, we get started with some hair talk. I actually have never had hair talk at the beginning of my podcast, but here, why not? So Holly, I'm really excited to talk about...

Hollye Briggs (03:47.662)
Yeah, scared.

Cara Lunsford, RN (03:52.098)
B-C-E-N, I'm really excited to talk about being a certified emergency room nurse. I'm a big fan. First of all, I'm a big fan of getting your certification. I'm a big fan of you. And when I was, I worked in pediatric oncology. So I got my C-P-H-O-N certification, pediatric hematology oncology nurse.

certification. I was so proud to wear the little like sticker on my badge, like legitimately like so excited that I got this like little felty sticker thing that went, yeah, I was like, very excited. So I would love to, I'd love to first have you just like introduce yourself, like so that we can learn a little bit more about you.

Hollye Briggs (04:36.62)
I wish I knew.

Cara Lunsford, RN (04:50.497)
your career in healthcare and how you kind of like got into like the BCN. And then we'll kind of jump in and we'll talk a little bit about like certification in general, like why it's important, it does for your career and all of that.

Hollye Briggs (05:08.43)
Sure. So, hi, I'm Holly Briggs. I am a professional development specialist at BCEN or the Board of Certification for Emergency Nursing. I've been with BCEN as a full-time employee for three years. I just had my work aversary in August of this year, my three-year one. so, prior to that, I am a nurse. I've been a nurse for 17 years.

My experience mainly was in the emergency department. That's really where I've been my entire career from new grad all the way until I started my full-time job here with BCN. And I loved emergency nursing. mean, truthfully, because I'm an ER nurse, I fully recognize that there are just a ton of specialties in nursing and to each and every one, I have such respect.

because I constantly give my patients to someone else and I need those nurses to be willing to take those patients from me. Cause that is really, you know, probably one of the saddest parts of emergency nursing is when you have to hold onto people forever. And really I loved the ability to, to stabilize treat and then hopefully move them along and their continuum of care. So I have a lot of respect for the nurses who kind of take my hand off and keep things going. So.

However, emergency nursing really was and still is my passion. And so that's kind of where I landed. I kind of got on my journey for certification when I moved. I was working at a hospital. I'm from Louisiana, side note. So if I mentioned names of...

towns you may or may not be familiar with them. One I know most people know, I worked in New Orleans in the beginning part of my career and when I moved to my hometown now, which is Baton Rouge, I started working in a new hospital and during the kind of that transition was kind of really the first time that I had a leader talk to me about becoming certified and I was like, wow, never really thought about it before and so

Hollye Briggs (07:21.964)
Obviously I see how important it is to have leadership kind of bringing in that motivation or even just encouragement to grow professionally. So that's probably a side note and anecdotal side note to leaders out there. You really do make a difference when you talk to people about how to grow themselves professionally. And so I thought, man, maybe she, maybe she's right. Maybe I should become certified. And so I looked into what that kind of

looked like I began to study, had to learn a lot. And once I sat and passed for my CEN, which is a certified emergency nurse certification, once I sat and passed for that, I thought, man, I learned so much and I feel like I can recognize things faster. just, I was suddenly very motivated to try for another one. And so three years consecutively, I got my

certified emergency nurse, then I got my certified pediatric emergency nurse, and I got my trauma certified registered nurse, all three of those certifications, which I still hold today. cause once you get them, it's really, you want to keep them, at least in my world. And so that's really how I began to kind of understand what nursing certification looked like, what it meant, the value in it personally, but also be

kind of what I saw across nursing. And I really began to realize that there's so many specialties in nursing and that since I identified myself as an emergency nurse, I really should kind of buy into becoming that professional emergency nurse and certification was a way for me to do that. And like I said, once I started doing that, I was like, this is great. And I definitely encouraged people around me. And then I had the opportunity in 2020.

to become a volunteer for BCN and I worked on their practice exam. I began item writing for them, which is a whole different set of skills that I did not have. And through that, I again, just learned a lot about what it takes to create a certification, what it takes to maintain a certification, had some really great opportunities that BCN allowed me to be a part of. And I just felt really kind of honored and humbled that they would even

Hollye Briggs (09:44.165)
might want me to work on something as tremendous as a certification and things, you know, that I find really valuable. And long story short, after our in 2022, I got offered a job to come on full time and I've been doing ever since and tell people it's really awesome to find something that you're passionate about that you get to do every single day. So I think as a nurse, hopefully most nurses feel that way when you go into your unit. Um, I definitely feel that way. Um, every time I

Cara Lunsford, RN (10:07.244)
Yes.

Hollye Briggs (10:13.656)
Wake up and get to work, so.

Cara Lunsford, RN (10:15.841)
That's amazing. That's awesome. I agree with you. think that we have so many opportunities as nurses and sometimes they go beyond the bedside and they still have a tremendous impact. I think sometimes people think, if I leave direct patient care and I go into education or I go into another area,

that somehow I'm not having the same impact. And that is wholly untrue. The fact that you are over here helping to write curriculum and write tests and help nurses to get certified is only helping the end recipient, which is the patient, of their care. And also,

I completely agree. When you're in nursing school, you are learning a little bit of everything, just enough to kind of get by. So that once you pick a specialty, and it used to be that nurses all went into MedSurg, stayed there for a few years, and then moved into a specialty. That's not the case anymore.

There are a lot of times, right? Like a lot of times nurses are graduating and going straight into a specialty. I did. I skipped MedSurg. I didn't do it. And so I think that even more importantly, that if you know that this is what you wanna do and this is what you're passionate about and you're like, I am...

Hollye Briggs (11:50.072)
That's right, yeah.

Cara Lunsford, RN (12:08.757)
I think emergency room nurses, just like in other specialties, emergency room nurses are a certain breed of people. It's true, right? They're a little adventurous, they're a little...

Hollye Briggs (12:22.41)
I agree. agree. I will. I'm.

Cara Lunsford, RN (12:23.489)
How would you categorize an emergency room nurse? What type of person are they?

Hollye Briggs (12:28.898)
Well, I would say that really it takes all personality types. I will never make the mistake of believing that only one personality type will make it in emergency nursing because I have been shown that you can be just the most gentlest kind of soul and you can make it in emergency nursing just as you can be one maybe the most stoic kind of, know, maybe a little more crotchety. You can still survive in emergency nursing too.

Personality wise, we can span the spectrum of personalities. What I will say is that I have found that emergency nursing, emergency nurses in general, just have the ability to constantly be reprioritizing and putting things that on a normal, maybe a more stable unit, you would be like, we really need to do that now.

And in the ER, you'd be like, we'll get to that next. And so that constant ability to have your attention be moving about and being okay with there being a bit of chaos, controlled as much as possible, but the chaos, which you can survive in that and thrive in that, which is not for every single person and every single nurse. so, you know, I, yes, yes.

Cara Lunsford, RN (13:40.385)
Mm-hmm.

Cara Lunsford, RN (13:47.192)
Kind of fast paced. I mean, you have to kind of be able to deal with fast pace change. You know, definitely some element of being dynamic in your thinking.

Hollye Briggs (13:54.84)
Yes.

Hollye Briggs (14:04.687)
Yeah, it's the ability to integrate. feel like a lot of change and a lot of information, working with very little in the beginning, but then constantly being able to take in what is changing with your patient, lab values that are coming in, new orders, new assessments, those kind of just constantly being able to integrate that information and then pushing forward and honestly being okay with not always knowing.

everything even when you hand that patient off, which can sometimes be pretty frustrating. think as people, we want to know the end of the story. I think we want to feel like, you know, we have some solid closure. And a lot of times as an emergency nurse, you don't get a ton of closure. Sometimes it's just realizing that you did the best job that you could with the information that you had.

Cara Lunsford, RN (14:46.445)
closure.

Hollye Briggs (15:00.376)
and you're handing it off for someone else to maybe close that loop a little bit. But, so you have to kind of be okay with that too, which not everybody is, and that's okay, because we need all kinds of resources.

Cara Lunsford, RN (15:10.945)
Yeah, but it's important to know, like if you're here listening to this podcast and you're like, that's me.

then it's probably a good fit for you. taking that next step, saying, what are some things that, say you're a MedSurg nurse and you're thinking about moving into emergency room nursing, okay? Emergency nursing. And so let's say that you wanna go to the B Are there some things that

I could do as a nurse at the BCEN that would help me kind of prepare for potentially working in the emergency, in emergency medicine. Like is, do we have some prep stuff, some things like quizzes and tests and things like that.

Hollye Briggs (16:08.004)
Sure, absolutely. So one of the things that I do love about BCN is we're not only trying to get you certified and keep you certified, we're also trying to provide some insight into what that might mean for your particular nursing journey. So on our website, we do have this thing called the nursing journey and you kind of, you identify where you're at in your career. Maybe you're newly starting out, maybe you're a new graduate, maybe you're deciding a new career path.

which I think is amazing that we work in a profession that offers the ability to pivot at any point in your career. I think that's one of the reasons why nursing is such a desirable field to get in. But again, we could spend time on that, but we won't. I'll try to stay focused. And so we have that, we have that.

Cara Lunsford, RN (16:55.329)
There's no need to stay focused here, Holly. We divert all the time. We just, we'll get to the end, but who knows how many detours we'll take.

Hollye Briggs (16:58.532)
We'll get there. Right. We'll get there, Kara. Yeah, I'm the perfect guest for this podcast, apparently, because I I will. I'll divert so quick. Yes. Yes. And so in that in that nursing journey, you can kind of figure out like where you're at and how you want to navigate that. As far as maybe you've had some exposure.

Cara Lunsford, RN (17:08.875)
You really are. It's like squirrel.

Hollye Briggs (17:26.722)
to a specialty in nursing and you're thinking about becoming certified in that, or you're wanting to get a little bit of exposure and figure out if that's where you'd like to track. And it talks a lot about like how you can continually grow. And I think as nurses, when I started out from nursing school, I had this idea that once I got, you know, once I got my RN, once I passed my NCLEX, like somehow I have arrived. And little did I know that, yes, you've arrived at the beginning.

And so I really, appreciate this kind of, you know, digital map almost for nurses to kind of realize like it is a journey, whatever point in your career that you're on, you can always change, pivot, and there's always room for growth. And so it does, it talks about certification, it talks about maintaining, you know, how to do that. It talks about different courses, different opportunities you can take.

There's definitely some that we recommend within BC in itself, but then also some that are out there. There's lots of resources through government agencies to talk about things like, disaster preparedness and things that maybe as a nurse on a med search floor, you might not have been as exposed to, but it's a good idea to kind of wrap, start wrapping your head around these concepts that can impact emergency nursing in real ways. And so I would say that that's one great resource. We do have,

another resource and we mainly recommend it when we talk to students who are about to graduate nursing school, but I also think there's a place for it for people who are looking at maybe getting into emergency nursing and we call it the ED Vantage program. And it helps kind of new professionals, which I wish I would have done this when I was a new graduate, but it talks to you about, you know, certain courses to take to kind of prepare yourself for triage and

Again, disaster preparedness, talks about how the run of a unit may look and it may be a bit different than either what you're used to or what you're exposed to in nursing school. And then it also talks about things like how, you know, how to sit in on an interview, how to kind of talk about where your strengths are at and how to bring things forward. Cause I do think that if you're coming from one unit to another, you bring strengths and experience with you.

Hollye Briggs (19:44.377)
that maybe that person that's sitting on the other side of the interview doesn't necessarily realize how valuable that could be. And I do think that whatever specialty of nursing you're in, you always bring with you to any new specialty of nursing, something that they probably need. I think for med-serve nurses, they're great at having the ability to manage obviously multiple patients and then timeliness and trying to like group their orders together and do things in a certain way.

that really can be useful. I also think that they have the ability to learn about their patients and know about their patients and connect with people, which is a really important skill to be able to hone very quickly in the emergency department because you have such a short timeframe with patients. And so that ability to connect and really.

make patients feel comfortable and trust in the care that you're about to give because you're going to be giving it rapidly and you may not always have the time to explain every single thing. And so again, I think there are ways that nurses can learn to market themselves that if they want to make a transition into a new specialty of nursing, they can do it well. And so like I said, there's a couple of different resources that BCN has for nurses who are looking to maybe move into either emergency nursing or transport flight.

burn, it's a very specific trauma. And then of course, pediatric emergency nursing. So there's, there's different ways that we try to support professionals from the beginning when they're just getting into nursing, but then also as they move through nursing and maybe they're making a change. Who knows?

Cara Lunsford, RN (21:22.645)
knows. Well, I think a lot of the things that you said I think really stuck out to me. I think that it's really, really important to realize that as you're maybe entertaining the idea of moving into a new specialty.

or if you're in that specialty already, how important it is to be seen as a leader.

especially when people are coming into that specialty. I know for me, if I'm moving into a new specialty, I'm going to gravitate to the person who has that certification. I'm gonna naturally want them to be my mentor, to be my preceptor. I'm gonna want to shadow that person. I'm gonna want to ask that person questions. I also feel like

when you wear that kind of badge of honor, and that's really how I felt when I had my CPON certification. I felt like this is an open invitation for new nurses, people new to the specialty of pediatric hematology oncology. For me, it was like, you can ask me questions.

Hollye Briggs (22:53.57)
Hmm?

Cara Lunsford, RN (22:53.857)
This is an open invitation for you to ask me questions. Now, I'm not saying that every single person who goes and gets their certification is naturally a leader or naturally an educator or naturally a preceptor. However, I would say that what they're saying by wearing this on their badge or showcasing it in some way is that I have taken that extra step in truly understanding

this area, this specialty, and I'm a resource for you.

Hollye Briggs (23:29.122)
Yeah, yeah. think I think you've described what what I tell people about certified nurses is we don't know everything. Nobody does. But we're curious enough to ask questions and be OK with people asking us questions. And I think that that allows there to be conversation from those maybe who aren't at that place in their career where they're where they are certified yet.

I remember being told like, maybe you should become certified. And the more these nurses talked about what that looked like and why they did it, I felt myself going, yeah, that's me. That's who I am. And that's really what started my journey in certification was seeing that, like that type of curiosity, that type of desire to learn, that, that

want to have the knowledge that is needed to take care of a patient in a very critical moment, I wanted to do that and I wanted to be that type of nurse. And so I think when nurses have those credentials and they wear them and they're proud of them and they take pride in the hard work that they've and the effort that it takes to become certified, I think it does open the door for people to feel like, that's a person I can ask questions to.

And if they don't know the answer though, we'll find out together. I don't see that as anything but a great thing for patients and for the camaraderie that comes and the relationship building that comes within that nursing unit. I mean, I see it as more than a twofold thing, but I see that both of those things will actually enhance the care that's being given and that community within that unit. This idea that we help one another.

this idea that questions are okay, this idea that we're all learning together. And I think that's actually the culture that I would want to work in, right? And hopefully it's a culture that we can create with one another. So I 100 % agree that the first time that I had my credentials placed on my badge, because one of the facilities I worked at, they had that, and I was...

Cara Lunsford, RN (25:35.585)
Yes.

Hollye Briggs (25:52.517)
Precepting a new nurse and we went into a patient room and the patient was like, so what does that mean? I know what a BSN is. They were at least familiar enough to know what that was. And they were like, but I don't know what that CEN means. What does it mean? And so I told him, I was like, well, I'm a certified emergency nurse. And they were like, well, what does that mean? I said, well, just like your providers and physicians can become board certified, so can nurses in the specialty in which they work. said, so.

I'm an emergency nurse and I've become board certified in emergency nursing. So I studied really hard, took a pretty hard test and I passed it. And so I get to wear these credentials as a sign of, of what I, what I was able to do and perform. And then also I get a chance to continue to learn to keep them. So not only did I have to learn enough to pass tests, now I keep learning so that I can continue to show that I.

am a certified emergency nurse and I'm going to continue to do it. And I said at the end of the day, hopefully that means I give you really good care. said, but you you'll have to judge me at the end of this. And of course, when I left, when we walked out, the nurse that I was precepting, she was like, wow, I've never had a patient, you know, kind of like interaction like that. And I was like, well, sometimes when you open the door for them to be curious about you, it then also opens the door for you to be.

kind of have mutual curiosity about one another and ask questions. And I said, and look, he asked me questions and I was able to provide him with responses. I said, I think it's good for patients to be able to feel like they can both ask and receive questions back and forth. I said, it opens this very quick relationship that we're probably gonna have with this patient. I said, but it's a good thing. It's a good thing for patients to feel that they're being taken care of by people who are validated in the knowledge that they have.

for why they're here.

Cara Lunsford, RN (27:46.828)
Yep. Yes. Yes. 100%. 100%. One of the things I was going to ask you about is kind of in, we've talked a little bit about intrinsic motivation, right? Like that's this kind of, I want to be the best because I, I feel like that is what's important to me for my professional development, the nurse I want to be, the coworker I want to be.

Hollye Briggs (28:09.029)
Mm-hmm. Cheers.

Cara Lunsford, RN (28:16.459)
type of care I want to provide, which is all kind of intrinsic motivation, right? We know that there are some of you nurses out there, they're like, where's the money? It's true though. I mean, we can sit here and be altruistic all day long. Many of us are, I think even if you are a little bit extrinsically motivated, that you still have that intrinsic motivation as well will give you the benefit of the doubt.

Hollye Briggs (28:20.6)
Absolutely.

Cara Lunsford, RN (28:46.305)
But at the end of the day, there's definitely people who are like, look, I'm working my ass off. I'm exhausted. I'm tired. What are you going to give me so that I can justify doing all this extra work and all this extra? And so in some situations, I think that it's important for nurses if that is important to you.

to be able to ask the questions of the institution in which you work, what do they do? How do they, do they reimburse for it? Do they, like, what would you say to some of those nurses who are like, hey, I'm interested in this, but how do I go about figuring out whether or not it's really gonna move the needle for me? Just even financially from, you know.

Hollye Briggs (29:43.814)
Sure. Well, no, I mean, Carrie, you bring up a great point. think that we could talk about like that inherent, you know, intrinsic inspiration that's required, I think, for anyone to stay in nursing for a long period of time and stay motivated. 100 percent. We could stay on there. To your point, there is that extrinsic motivation that is needed. And I really think that it's kind of a twofold point.

I think what you have to ask is what is, what, what value does the facility or the organization see in professional development of their nurses? And I think that's a fair question as a nurse working in a facility or organization to ask, because you're not simply a warm body. You are doing healthcare.

on real human people that people care about. And so I think it's important as an employee to be curious as to what that looks like and where are the dollar and cents that's put behind that. And so there are some facilities that will reimburse for you to take the exam. There are some facilities that take it a step further and they purchase vouchers and they don't even make you pay upfront. They take care of the exam right when you take it. There are some that have

reimbursement for not only study materials, but the exam itself. I mean, you can run the gamut as far as from a financial aspect. And I do think it's important for nurses to ask questions about financial fiduciary things, being responsible, because we are in this career for, hey, we want to help people. And also we want to take care of our families. We want to live hopefully a comfortable.

Cara Lunsford, RN (31:33.687)
Yeah.

Hollye Briggs (31:35.629)
life. And I can definitely say as a nurse that I have benefited from having a career where I live in comfort, I'm able to take care of my family and be generous. And so I look at this and I say, it should be about both, right? It should be what was the facility willing to invest? And then also how am I going to best show up as an employee to validate the value of what they're feeding into? So if I say, Hey, I'm going to go sit for this exam.

I'm not just going to show up and hope that I pass. I'm going to say, no, my facility is is reimbursing me for the exam and they gave me a voucher. I'm going to study really hard. I am going to do everything I can do to be very prepared so I can be successful to it and show that this is a worthwhile investment in me as a professional. And, you know, there's plenty of white papers out there, plenty of studies to show that certification, it not only drives

this idea of better care, but it also, it drives the perception of leadership and it drives this idea that like certified nurses are viewed as nurses who are very engaged and who are willing to kind of go that extra mile. So I think it, a twofold part, where does organizations see the value of certain, like, are they willing to back it up with dollars and cents? But then also as employees, we look at it and go, they're investing in me.

what can I do to show up and be a worthwhile investment for them? And sometimes, you know, some facilities, they don't really have a program set up or a current way that they're investing in it. And some of that is because nobody's asked, like because nobody's gone to them and said, hey, have you guys thought about this? Have you guys considered putting in the budget for this? you know,

Cara Lunsford, RN (33:19.671)
Mm.

Hollye Briggs (33:31.033)
My mom used to always say, never know what the answer will be till you ask. So the answer might be no, but it may be that nobody's ever really asked for support, for financial support for this. And so, you know, I don't think nurses have a problem asking questions. So why would we have a problem asking questions when it comes to something that is and truly can be, it can move the needle for your growth. It really can. I could.

tell you more about some different research studies that I've even just recently looked at that show that certification is a really big professional development milestone and the impact that it can have. But anecdotally, I've seen it in my own career and I've seen how certification has changed the trajectory of where I thought I was going to end up. And I'm so grateful that it did. So I would say if a nurse is thinking about it, they're like, you know, where are the dollars and cents?

I would say not only maybe ask, but then also make sure that you're that worthwhile investment for that organization. So.

Cara Lunsford, RN (34:35.274)
Yes, yes. you know, it's now that I work in corporate, in a corporate setting, we do things called investment proposals. You have an idea, you want something, you have an initiative that you think would be important. And the first thing that someone in executive leadership will say is, we'll put together investment proposal. Tell us like, why? Why should we invest in this, right?

Since CHAT GPT came on the scene, I'm just saying this for all you nurses out there who are like, I don't know how to do an investment. That's okay. You don't need to know how. So you can literally go into CHAT GPT and say, I wanna make this recommendation to my management, to administration. I think that we would have better retention. We'd have better engagement. We'd have better workplace satisfaction.

we'd have better patient care, we'd have better outcomes, we would have all the things. And you feed that in to chat GPT, your little chatty, chatty GPT. You can name it, I don't care. And put it in there and say, I would like...

Hollye Briggs (35:51.749)
takes it all in.

Cara Lunsford, RN (36:02.711)
to recommend to my facility, my institution, that they invest in nurses getting their certifications, whether it be oncology certifications, whether it be emergency certifications, that my proposal and my hypothesis is that if they did this, that they would

keep their nurses, they would actually attract probably more nurses to their institution if they're having hiring problems. And this is my solution. This is what I think the solution could be. Here's where I think they'd have to invest. This is how much money I think it might cost. But here, what's the return on investment? If you have less attrition, if you have, you know,

better patient outcomes. So you have less liability, you have less, all of this stuff, right? Better patient satisfaction scores, better reimbursement, all of that stuff. So if you feed it in to chat GPT, guess what? It's gonna like, bring, it's gonna like kick out a really cool, maybe three to five page investment proposal.

Hollye Briggs (37:32.421)
Hmm?

Cara Lunsford, RN (37:33.217)
with a lot of those points in it.

Hollye Briggs (37:35.482)
Bye!

Cara Lunsford, RN (37:37.265)
And just you take that to your administration, you take it to your nurse manager, whoever, and you say, how do I get this maybe to the CNO? How do I get this all the way to the C-suite? To talk about, yeah, right?

Hollye Briggs (37:51.75)
100%. 100%. And, you know, you and I care both know that we've sat on the other side and been asking for things and we've sat on the side and we're being asked for things. And to me, I want to I want to give the opportunity and the chance to someone who looks like they put time, effort and energy and they're really passionate about it. And.

even if it doesn't work out 100 % as the proposal says, I would much rather roll the dice on that than someone who just says, so what are you guys going to do about this? I want to get certified. Like who's going to pay for it? Like while that's, you know, no questions, bad question. I would look at that and go, man, what a difference in the way that this is being brought. And, and I really say like, man, one, I would

I would really want to see how far I could move that idea and how much support I could have behind that. Cause I really do, I really do think that it really does start with that one nurse who says, I want, I want to not only do something for me, but I want to do it for my, my fellow colleagues and my, and the new nurses that are coming in the unit. And I want them to stay.

And I know that retention is a huge, it's a huge focus for any organization is how can you retain really high quality nursing staff? How can we keep them here? It's an investment to train a new nurse. It's an investment to even train an experienced nurse to a unit. And so the idea is like, how can we keep those really good people? And I tell people, like, look, when, when

Cara Lunsford, RN (39:28.653)
Mm-hmm.

Hollye Briggs (39:43.942)
When you as an employee feels like you are valuable and that your organization invests in you as not only a profession, nursing in general, but also as an individual, and you feel like I am valuable, you are willing to do, and you're willing to do a lot, go that extra mile, and your loyalty to that place is very different. And so, you know, I 100 % agree with you that

Cara Lunsford, RN (40:07.19)
sure.

Hollye Briggs (40:11.535)
There's lots of tools out there now. You don't have to be, you don't have to have your MBA necessarily to make a really good proposal. And so why would we not, why would we not go about it and do it in way that shows that, hey, I'm a nurse, but I'm a professional nurse. So here's my proposal.

Cara Lunsford, RN (40:29.217)
And you're a systemic thinker, right? Like, I think that nurses have to show that we look at patients holistically, right? We also have the ability to look at healthcare and the institution in which we work holistically, right? And so if you want something or you feel like there's a benefit,

It's so beneficial for us to, you know, draw the line, connect the dots to a lot of different areas, whether or not you're saying, look, if you did this, imagine if there was a PR release and the PR, the press release says such and such healthcare system invests in its nurses by paying for

all nurses to get their certifications in their respective specialties.

First of all, that looks amazing from just a retention recruitment perspective, right? Nurses are like, wait, what? And if you're a patient, okay, what patient doesn't wanna go to a hospital where the nurses, by and large, are certified? I know I would, if I'm a patient, I'd be like, wait a minute, this system pays for their staff.

to get certified in their specialties so that if I end up at that hospital, there's a good chance that a fair percentage of the nurses that are taking care of me in whatever department I end up in have an extra level of education, have an extra investment in their specialty, and that they have an appreciation from their healthcare system into them.

Cara Lunsford, RN (42:36.971)
So I'm probably gonna get better care.

Hollye Briggs (42:40.985)
You're saying everything that I've read in white papers and in journals. So it's like you read them. It's like you've aggregated all of that, that proof basically that says it really does have that trickle down effect. And if we can connect the dots, if we can show that it not only impacts nurses and the way that they see themselves, but also the way patients see them, the way that physicians and providers interact with them.

There's just, there's something to showing that big picture, like you said, that I really think can make a difference when you're making these proposals and you're talking to your leaders about how they can, you know, help support, how they can help to move that needle, as you said earlier, on professional development for their staff. And I love this idea that nurses do need to be systemic thinkers.

We need to take what we do for patients, which is, you know, not only looking at them physically, but thinking about them as a whole person, you know, mentally, psychologically, emotionally, you know, spiritually, they're, they're, they are whole people and we should approach them with our care as such. And then we should also take that and apply it to our profession and that we touch so many areas within the healthcare system, not just directly to patients, but we're, we're tied into.

most ancillary departments in some way, or form. We're always, we should always be included in committees where they're making decisions about facilities because again, we have a lot of input that we can have and perspective that needs to be heard. And so I look at certification and I go, yes, this is a way for you to gain confidence because you've been found to be competent in your specialty.

And that confidence will be translated in lots of ways, the care that you give to patients, but also in the way that you talk about your profession and the way that you present yourself. Maybe in a community article, when you were talking Kara, was like, man, she's basically saying, talking about some of our, so we have BCN awards every year, national certification champions, and these are hospitals and facilities that.

Hollye Briggs (44:59.351)
are supporting certification in real ways, in real tangible ways with their staff, and they're showing results. And the amount of nurses that are getting certified and staying certified in the ways that it's impacting their bottom line as a facility. And I think it's really cool to highlight those every year because some of them are doing things that are different, new ways. One hospital has a huge wall where they celebrate every single nurse who gets certified and they have their name on the wall.

And then when people are walking past, it be patients or visitors or other nurses, they can see their colleagues and coworkers and recognize that, man, we're surrounded by people who are just pushing themselves professionally. And I think it's very inspiring. And like I said, there's multiple ways with which they're doing that. And I think it's, I love that our organization is not only curious about what people are doing, but then wants to highlight that. And so as you were talking about this,

hypothetical facility that we're building and proposing things to. I'm like, man, they could be a national certification champion. Get your data together and get things going. And we would love to highlight that because it can be not only a thank you for the hard work that you're doing, which I think is important that we show gratitude when we see people doing really awesome things, but then it can also be inspiration for people who are thinking about, man, I'd love to talk to my leader about this.

wow, I just read about this facility that's doing this and this is what they've been able to do. Hey, now you have some more support for the argument that this is worthwhile for you to invest in. So yeah, I love that. like I said, we could get on a lot of the tangents.

Cara Lunsford, RN (46:40.493)
That's so cool. We're going to fix this problem. I mean, really, most podcast interviews that I have, we've already solved all the problems of the world within an hour. Yeah. Yeah. And honestly, at nurse.com, we have top workplaces that has the nurse.com logo, and it's like top workplaces, nurse.com for nursing.

Hollye Briggs (46:55.181)
I, yes.

Cara Lunsford, RN (47:09.991)
And hey, I mean, there's no reason that we can't start to include facilities that, I don't know, pay for certification. Maybe that, huh? What?

Hollye Briggs (47:24.101)
Sounds like a good idea to me. mean, if I was a nurse looking for a job, which I'm not, but if I was, I would, I would love to know. And, and I have asked in interviews before, so what do you guys do to support, you know, nurses that are, have been at the facility a long time who are new to the facility? I mean, the tough part is that a lot of times in nursing, the, the draw of organizations is to attract the nurse in.

Like, you know, sign on bonuses, et cetera. Like, you know, the red carpet is rolled out because again, you know, we're in pretty high demand as far as a profession. So I, you know, that's always okay. And then the follow-up question should be, so what do you do to keep nurses here? So like once we're here, what is the investment on the other side so that way we can both grow together?

Cara Lunsford, RN (47:55.149)
Mm-hmm.

Hollye Briggs (48:22.127)
Cause I'm here as an employee to help grow the business of healthcare and to take care of your most important person, which is your patients and their families. Like that's my job. And I'm going to continue to help move that forward. And what will you do so that way I can continue to grow? Cause we've got to be growing together. Otherwise one of us is dying. So who's that going to be? So I agree.

Cara Lunsford, RN (48:51.233)
Right. Absolutely. Well, this is exciting. So if people are interested, okay, and they want to learn more, first and foremost, if you go to the nurse.com forward slash podcast and you look at this episode, we always put links. We know that you're jogging, walking your dog, driving. We do not want you like getting distracted while you're driving to write something down. So please don't.

Hollye Briggs (48:51.672)
Thank you.

Cara Lunsford, RN (49:20.811)
worry, like we will make sure to have it listed on the podcast landing page. But if it's easy enough to remember, where are some places that people can go, like what in order to find more information about B

Hollye Briggs (49:40.422)
Absolutely. So our website is really easy. It's BCN.org and it'll drop you in on our landing page and there from there you can navigate to various different sections. If you're interested in talking and learning more about certifications, there's a whole different landing pages for that. Even directed down into which specialty of certification you would want to know more about. So you can go there for that. I did talk to you about the nurse journey. So there are some resources.

on the website to help you kind of navigate like maybe I'm not really sure exactly where I'm at or what I should do next. So that can kind of give you a little bit of a roadmap. There's also if you're a leader or you're someone who's trying to garner support for specialty certification within your organization, we have resources for that. We have a great employee engagement management team.

And they would love to talk to you about ways that they can help you make good cases. We have white papers and research that is connected to BCN. So there's things out there. If you're like, man, I know they're going to want some numbers. I know they're going to want some data points. Perfect. We're happy to help with what we have. And if worse comes to worse, you're like, Holly, I am just not that person.

who wants to go to a website, like I want to, you know, I want to talk to a human. Perfect. You can call us. We have customers, a great customer service team and they can navigate you within moments to where and who on our team would be best for you to talk to. And then we can, Hey, at that point, if you're like, man, I need this and I need this and I need this. Great. We'll get your email. We can send clips and links and you know, tag you and all of that, all of that.

I will say that, you know, most people are pretty internet savvy. So the website is probably going to be where most people would end up. But if you're also the person like, man, I just want to talk to somebody. I have a very specific question. Hey, call us. We have our 1-800 number. We're ready at all times for you to call and we will get back with you. If we don't know the answer, we'll figure it out together because at the end of the day, like we support nurses. We support

Hollye Briggs (52:02.03)
nurses who are seeking to grow the profession. And we want to be a partner in that. So however we can, we're here for it.

Cara Lunsford, RN (52:09.696)
I love it. I love it. Well, for sure, we'll make sure that on the landing page, you're gonna be able to find the website bcen.org and we'll make sure that the phone number is there for those of you who don't like to go to a website. No problem. Hey, I'm.

Hollye Briggs (52:27.013)
Thank you. I mean, I am a phone caller. Like if I can call somebody, I'm going to do that more than send them an email. Like it's just real. I feel like I'm going directly to the source.

Cara Lunsford, RN (52:33.333)
Me too.

Cara Lunsford, RN (52:39.584)
Yeah, I am the same way. I am the same way. And for those of you who are thinking about making that investment proposal for your organization, don't forget that like you can even upload those white papers from bcen.org. So all of that information that you find, if you don't wanna have to weed through it and find all of the relevant data,

chatty GPT gonna do it for ya.

Hollye Briggs (53:11.417)
Like, no, Kara, I, there are constantly people, I've had people ask me, both nurses outside of healthcare. They say, aren't you worried that AI is going to take your job? And I'm like, it's very clear to me that you've never used AI because once you use it, you realize, look, this thing is a great tool, but it is not a replacement. It's not a replacement option. Yeah. It's not a replacement option. I'm not going to be replaced.

Cara Lunsford, RN (53:32.394)
This is my friend. This is my friend.

Hollye Briggs (53:39.737)
Like I said, most of the time when people ask me that question, I'm like, I don't know if you've ever used AI yet. Because once you use it, you quickly realize that like it needs some help. And while it is a great tool, and I do think we shouldn't be afraid of tools, we should learn how to use it and use it appropriately and use it well, like be smart about it. But don't be afraid. It's not going to replace you.

Cara Lunsford, RN (54:04.778)
No, let it work for you. Let it work for you. Okay. I totally agree. And in this situation, it can definitely help, you know, move the needle and help get you in front of the right people and get the outcomes that you want, which is essentially for your employer to invest in you. So I have enjoyed this so much, Holly. This has been so fun.

Hollye Briggs (54:13.157)
I'm 100 %

Hollye Briggs (54:29.519)
No, thank you, Kara. I appreciate you guys having me on and having a chance to share not only my story about how I kind of got to where I am, but also I hope that it came across that I'm really passionate about nursing, really passionate about the professional nurse, and I'm very passionate about certification. so hopefully all of that kind of came together. If not, hopefully you'll catch it in the editing and...

Make me sound good, okay, Sarah? So, but.

Cara Lunsford, RN (54:57.292)
No, you

It won't be hard. You already sounded amazing. Well, this has been... Any time, any time. I can't wait to have you back again. Have a wonderful...

Hollye Briggs (55:03.065)
Well, I appreciate you. Thank you so much for having me.

Hollye Briggs (55:11.493)
Well, thank you again. Wonderful day.