Episode 12: How to Be Successful Through Nursing School

This transcript was generated automatically. Its accuracy may vary.

Cara Lunsford

Hey, nurses, Are you looking to put a few more letters behind your name? Oh, I don't know, like BSN, MSN, or maybe even DNP. If you are, take a look at what South University is offering. Whether you're looking to attend from home on campus, or a combination of both. South University has something for you. To learn more, check out South University dot edu or call 85588424080.

Welcome to the Nurse dot podcast. Giving nurses validation resources and hope. One episode at a time. So today on Nurse Dot podcast.

Kimberly Dunker

The job market is so hot in nursing. It's definitely a shift. You know, we're really focused on the right fit for people and not just getting basically butts in the seat.

Cara Lunsford

Joining us today, Kimberly Dunker, a nursing school administrator with over 20 years of experience in nursing. Kimberly did her doctoral thesis on the empowerment of nursing faculty and has a strong passion for ensuring that nursing schools are accessible and ethical. I'm your host, Kara Lunsford, registered nurse and VP of community at Nurse AECOM.

Oh, well, hello. Kimberly Dunker, I had the privilege of meeting you, I don't know, a few months ago. I was like, Oh, my gosh, this woman is kick ass. And I was like, We have got to have her on. I want her talking about nursing school. The just the journey, the struggle, the joy where you can find it.

Kimberly kick it off with a little bit of who you are, how you got started it, How long have you been in nursing and then like what you currently do.

Kimberly Dunker

So I've been a nurse 23 years, believe it or not, I became a nurse when I was 19. Long time ago, fourth generation nurse. And we just kind of went on and just did every little degree. Two year, four year master's doctorate. But I'm an ICU nurse by trade, so critical thinker like the action like to be able to problem solve and to focus and help people get better.

I started teaching early around. I don't know. I was like 23 and my students were older than me, but I was at the bedside teaching clinical and it was amazing because I actually had new nurses, young nurses, young in their thinking, not age wise, but just so excited to do this job. That is very fulfilling to me because, you know, nursing is hard and there's a lot of burnout and it's just to see new life all the time just coming out and just be so excited about the little things that got me excited.

So I went right into teaching in academia for Since Forever. Now it feels like and now I run a nursing school in Northern California and it's just my dream to be able to help people have access to nursing school, which is a huge problem right now. There's just so many students that can't get into a nursing program. But also to do it ethically, that's a real problem right now between people trying to make money off of people trying to get into nursing school and the state schools and the not for profits and the for profits.

It's a big industry and we need nurses. So bad. So I'm trying to do it at least my way is just to, you know, help gain access in an ethical way.

Cara Lunsford

That's amazing. I think access is something that's top of mind for people from a variety of aspects, right? Like we talk about health equity, we talk about being able to gain access to health care as a patient population, but nurses and potential nurses, people interested in going to nursing school, having that access, being able to get into these fields and not be saddled with the kind of student loan debt that it's going to put such a burden on them.

And this is already a field and a profession that comes with a lot of stress. You definitely don't need to go into it with tons and tons and tons of student loan debt.

Kimberly Dunker

Exactly. And, you know, it's important for schools to have enough seats, have enough clinical spots, and to bring people in, but also not mislead students that they see, oh, so-and-so's a nurse or I can get a job. The job market is so hot in nursing, it's definitely a shift. So when you're able to lead a program and then work with other leaders, you know, we're really focused on the right fit for people and not just getting basically butts in the seat because there's a lot of pressure, there's a lot of pressure from the state.

There's a huge nursing shortage. And to have as many people come into nursing, there's a lot of pressure from hospitals to graduate nurses and get them working. And, you know, the pandemic didn't help this a big recovery effort right now from the pandemic nationally, we see across the country that actually the applicant pool to nursing school has dropped across the country.

Cara Lunsford

Really?

Kimberly Dunker

Yeah, it's a huge problem. And so we still do not have enough spots for the number of students that want to get into programs. So students are going to come and gain access or try to get access. But the problem is because the pools down, you have a very rigorous program and you have people that are not necessarily prepared for that.

So when you have a bigger pool of students looking, we can spend time saying, really, let's look at your sciences, let's look at, you know, how you've performed up until now, because it goes back into if I'm going to have you take federal dollars, federal financial aid to go into debt, I want to ensure that you're going to be able to be successful in the program.

And I think that's a real responsibility we all need to think about when we anybody that's taking federal financial aid for anybody, any profession to go to college, can you pay that back? And are you going to secure a job that's going to allow you to pay that back? That's why I say ethically, you know, I want to make sure we have the right fit for students.

And all the time I have students that get so much pressure from their families, Oh, you got to be a nurse. That's a way to get a job. Or you have to be a nurse because it's in your blood, it's in your family. And I have students that are just come in and they almost want you to tell them, Do not admit me, but mom and dad are paying the bills.

So you know, you have to see it out and then meet them and then they're just so miserable. So and then you have the other spectrum. You have students that want to get in so bad, but they don't have the grades to do it. And you're just like, How can we help them? They've got the heart. How can we reduce barriers so that they will be successful?

You know, you just have all these buckets. So I do like being at the helm of running a program. This is the second program I've been a part of as the Dean. The first one was a for profit, and this one is a not for profit that I'm at. And I definitely feel like that's my fit, you know, And for profits have a place, but it is a lot more about let's get 50 people in these seats and let's get them graduated, you know, and the admission criteria may not be as high.

So you are, you know, promising something. And then the failure rate or the attrition rate is higher versus me. I have a very high attrition rate because we have really good selection. And that's what I think it's about. I really want to send that message, you know, state schools, not for profit schools. You know, that entity is different, but not everybody can go that route because the space is limited.

Cara Lunsford

You know, this is it, right? If you're going to fix anything, you have to really look at the beginning, because what we're seeing on the end, when nurses do get through, the problem is you're never going to really be able to fake this for long. At some point you're going to be in the real world if you manage to get in because there's loose criteria around admission and they let you in that way.

And then like, well, maybe the curriculum is a little loose. When I was in nursing school, it was like you couldn't have anything below a C and really it was a B, and that was strict. They had no problem throwing you out. I literally have a memory. We were in psych and we were in a clinical rotation and there was very, very strict policies around to absences and that's it.

And too late equaled an absence. I remember this girl running up to the door of the psych facility. She had been sick one time, so this was her second late, which means it was going to equate to an absence. I just remember her hand, like throwing her hand up against this window. And the clinical instructor was just like shaking her head.

We could all see that, like, this could be us at any point in time. And we were like, Please, It's only like a minute. It's 60 minute. Like she's almost. And the clinical instructor was like, If I make an exception, I'll have to always make him an exception. She's like, It breaks my heart, too, but I have to do it.

I mean, I came up in a time like six years ago where that was the school of hard knocks.

Kimberly Dunker

That picture is so true. And yet COVID changed a lot of that. We have a new term called grace. We all have to have a little grace if anybody has a sore throat or a cough or anything. Now it's well, they better stay home. And we have two teams, the student end. And, you know, we talk about this in nursing school.

It affected the quality of the nurse and the programs because we had to have so much grace that people, you know, didn't go to clinical some schools for a year, didn't go to clinical, some schools didn't come to class. Their whole two years. And now you have this new group of graduates coming out that have had such limited patient contact.

And those hospitals are burdened with that grace. It's a different type of nurse that's coming out because they're used to having so much grace as a new employee, new grad.

Cara Lunsford

And they're not going to have that in the hospital. Like you're not going to find that, although arguably I could say we could use a little more grace in the hospital and maybe a little harder in nursing school like there has to be a middle, right. You're doing them a disservice if you allow them to coast through and kind of just do it on their own time.

And I do think, okay, if you can't be in class, like you can't be in class, or if you can't go to clinical, you can't go to clinical, but you cannot graduate until you have X number of hours. And if that takes you five years, well then I guess you're going to have five years worth of student loan debt and five years worth of schooling for what you could do.

And to I don't know, is that a solution?

Kimberly Dunker

But the problem is, is when you have a regulated a highly regulated program and every state regulates it, right? So even if you have a state that doesn't regulate it in terms of California is extremely regulated. So that's one extreme. And then you have Tennessee, Massachusetts. I worked Ohio. You know, it might be less regulated, but you still have to meet a higher benchmark for the Board of Nursing for your own class.

So to me, lengthening the program from the time can be detrimental to them sitting for boards. So that's a problem. It's like accommodations. There's so many more kids with accommodations now, what can we reasonably do that somebody else would have to reduce barriers. So there's a lot of rigidity in nursing school, and I think that there's a place for that, but there's a place where we need to, if you ever see, accommodate or work with accommodations or students that need extra time on tests for different things.

And I'll tell you, so many more students entering nursing school come out with a DSM anxiety diagnosis, right? Because it's stressful. It's high stakes. They paid a lot of money to get there. They've been on wait lists. So we have a good amount of students that are receiving accommodations. And I look at that is a way that we are getting people through a very rigorous program, that we are just giving them a step stool to see over the fence right?

Everybody needs a little different size step stool, to be honest. I would say easily 100% of the time. It's a sign they need help. And what we need to do is if somebody is not reaching that norm, making it to clinical in time, we need to definitely figure out what's going on, because I'll tell you, in the last three months, I've had this exact same thing.

It's been a medication issue, you know, So they they get a medical and we've helped them through that. I had a student that was having a med change. They were getting treated for some ADHD type medication and they were going through this big med change. They didn't want to disclose it. I'm like, that's a medical reason. And so we went from, You're going to fail because you've been late twice to, okay, let's get you an accommodation and help you through so that you're not getting that fail in the clinical if we have strong admission criteria.

And I believe these students that I admitted can do it and they fall off because they're late to clinical, they're showing signs, what I call signs of sepsis. Sepsis is that, you know, it's when you think the patient's going to get really sick. It's all those signs that you see leading up to it. When I start seeing signs, I'm like, wait a minute.

My job is to figure out before they go into shock.

Cara Lunsford

Yeah, before we have to code them.

Kimberly Dunker

Right. And if I can save the student, we may have to change the journey a little bit. But how worth it is it for that? So, you know, I've had this over and over again. I have a student that came in, really started just having terrible testings idea around doing demonstrating skills. This is a first year student, just doing a basic blood pressure, just totally started, just huge anxiety.

So the disability officer said, what kind of accommodation? You know, they're asking for more time. And my faculty is saying, well, you can't give them more time on a skill test because in the hospital, you know, they've got to be able to do this skill right away. And I said, Well, they're not going to the hospital for six weeks.

Maybe they just need to get used to it for the first five weeks. Let's give a temporary accommodation and see if they can do this. We have a huge responsibility to take every student very seriously, you know, and hopefully the majority of them are going to cruise through and there's not going to be issues. But when people we've admitted you, we should have a commitment to your success.

Cara Lunsford

I feel like as we're talking about this, I'm like picturing these 30 year veteran nurses driving down the street listening to this podcast. You know what I'm going to say right? They're all like, What the hell?

Kimberly Dunker

Like.

Cara Lunsford

Are you kidding me right now? Like, you know.

Kimberly Dunker

A lot of kids that try to come in to college and nursing school, a good majority, have never advocated for themselves and they don't know what they need in nursing school. As you know, it's so challenging. They come in and that first fundamentals class hits them over the head. Like you said, we have to be everything, but we have to do it because we care.

And that transitions to the parent. We're not getting paid all that much money as a parent, right? I think you're cutting a paycheck to be a parent. It is dismal what nursing faculty make compared to nursing now certain parts of the country, it's better than others. I can tell you in California it's not. But it's one of those things, if your heart is in it, you know, your reward is is really great.

And I have some of the most amazing faculty that I've come across that, you know, they may not be getting paid the money, but man, those rewards of seeing those students be able to translate and to move through the program is much greater. You know, we started talking about access and admission to nursing school, but, you know, the space is limited.

There's three different buckets. You know, there is the faculty shortage. We just don't have enough faculty because we can't attract faculty to teach for not very much money. We don't have the clinical spots in nursing programs. And then, you know, the pool of nursing school is actually going down, believe it or not.

Cara Lunsford

Why do you think that is? Tell me like what you think.

Kimberly Dunker

The pandemic, you know, there wasn't a time you didn't turn on the news that you saw nurses or health care providers at their worst on TV. You know, amount of propaganda has hurt the profession. And then you have new grads going out with very little skill set. There's a huge gap now from the pandemic that now they're burning out so quick.

So to give you an idea, an article that I just read around 2013, the turnover rate for a new grad was in like 35% in the first year. They would leave their job. And we've all heard that it is now during the pandemic 2020 to say it is now 65% will leave their job.

Cara Lunsford

Oh my gosh.

Kimberly Dunker

And it's not that they're leaving nursing because that was also a big research study that went out. You know, people just leave. Nursing people aren't leaving nursing. What's happening is they're just jumping ship. Part of it's generational. You know, you talk about the veteran nurses. The veteran nurses know what they know. They come in, it's stable. They know how to do business and not take it personal kind of a thing.

They go in, you do your job, you do it well. You can leave it at the table. But this generation is very emotionally charged. So they take it very to heart. So they go in and the preceptor gives them direct feedback. It just crushes their soul and they don't have the skills, a lot of them, to recover from that.

And the preceptors going, I'm just trying to help them be me, be a better nurse, you know, be, you know, have that knowledge. So there's a huge disconnect. And what happens is, is this generation, they're just like, peace out, I don't need this. I will get another job tomorrow and they can do.

Cara Lunsford

Coming up after the break. Oh.

Kimberly Dunker

You can't hire all new grads. So then you've got travelers and you've got all these agency and you've got all these other entities on your unit. And just to keep safe staffing ratios.

Cara Lunsford

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Kimberly Dunker

We have to really think about not coddling the new grads, but who we mentor them with, who we precept them with. And it goes back to that whole novice to expert. Just because you have the best nurse on the unit and they give the best care and the best outcomes, they mean that's not the person you necessarily want bringing the new grads in.

And there's been so many different renditions of new grad residencies, and we know it's a real need, you know, to support this group coming out.

Cara Lunsford

There has to be residencies. I just don't see a world, or at least one where we're able to provide the kind of care that the public deserves without this additional training. When I went to school, I went to county and county was a really different kind of experience, great experience in terms of like, was I prepared? Oh, yes, I was well-prepared.

I actually said to somebody the other day, I said, you know, when I was in my fourth semester of nursing school, I went on to the floor and a county nurse handed me six charts and walked away and left until three. I don't know where she went. And this was during a time when you had to read the charts, so you had to read other people's chicken scratch and the doctor's notes.

I mean, I was just struggling to get through and just make sure that and then you go into a room and a guy's in four point restraints. You're pretty sure he's been there for two days and four point restraints. It's legit like that, you know, But the thing is, is that I still came out of there and I went to a hospital that had a residency and I was in a six month residency.

Kimberly Dunker

Yeah.

Cara Lunsford

I mean, it was substantial.

Kimberly Dunker

And you did well.

Cara Lunsford

I did so well. I mean, I'm still here and I'm a thriving, successful nurse who still hasn't lost my faith in humanity or the profession. So, I mean, you have to invest in these people for a period of time for an extended period of time, and give them resources and education and clinical experience and mentorship and good preceptorship and all of that.

If you think you're going to keep them.

Kimberly Dunker

That's right. And you know, the thing is, the hospitals are they know this, they know this, and yet they are suffering because they've had so much turnover and you can't hire all new grads. So then you've got travelers and you've got all these agency and you've got all these other entities on your unit. And just to keep safe staffing ratios and then you've got the new grad.

So we have the formula, we have a pathway forward. And I dare say that we just need to stay on the path because we are going to recover from this. In the last year with the pandemic, you know, board passed rates across the country, dropped at least 10% in every nursing school, maybe more for some. We're seeing that go back up this year as they've gone back to clinical.

But the hospitals system is stressed. They're stressed with us being there. They need us, but they're they're stressed with us being there. And so we have to figure a way to make relationship ups with hospitals. That's my goal. The more relationship I can ensure with my hospitals in the area, the better it's going to be on both hands.

You know, I do think those final relationships and how we build them are so important. And getting the students while they're in nursing school, they have all these they're not residencies, but they hire them, you know, as clinical associates. They call them all different things. But while they're in nursing school, getting the students out there to work in those capacities and transitioning is it's a real solid thing to do.

I mean, I worked as a CNA when I was in nursing school. It was the best thing I could have done. Again, we have a different group of people coming to nursing school. They're not like I was young, you know, had no children. I was just ready to just work. I could work any shift, any time. I was pretty much dedicated to just my studies.

But now we have a lot of adult learners. We have people switching careers for all different reasons. We have people starting careers, we have single parents. We have just so many people that are just turning to nursing for all different ways. So we're definitely bringing in a great diversity, our pool of nurses, which is awesome, but we also need to address their learning and it's different.

So adult learners, you know, they're very rule bound, especially that generation. And I would say, you know, X or the I got baby boomers that are in my class, I have people that are like, I'm finally going to go to nursing school.

Cara Lunsford

That's incredible. That is so amazing.

Kimberly Dunker

But it's awesome, you know? And when I place them in clinical, they get mad respect just because their age, you know, you have somebody that's in their fifties coming out, you know, forties, fifties, and they get automatic respect. They think they've got ten years of experience out there. I'm like, no, they're in clinical, you know. So I think that makes it an exciting time, too, because we're just seeing a great diversity coming out.

We're also seeing, you know, first generation kids coming to go to college for the first time, and I would have thought that would have changed. But man, it is expensive to go to college. It's a commitment. You know, not everybody gets to do this. So it's exciting. We don't have enough space in nursing programs. That's just the.

Cara Lunsford

Problem. As you were talking, I was thinking about the fact that I was actually a senior as well, and I did that while I was waiting to take my boards. And I was curious if you thought that that would be a good prerequisite for nursing school.

Kimberly Dunker

To be honest, a lot of nursing programs, especially community colleges, you get on admission. Some community colleges are just lottery system, but a lot of them have gone to a point system and actually you get a higher priority in your points if you have a background. So like part of our admission criteria, you're placed higher. If you've been an EMT, a CNA, a lab tech, you know, if you have some kind of health care experience because we know you've already been through some kind of rigorous something, I mean, even a senior, you know, that's hard to get that if you haven't gotten it through nursing school.

So, yeah, I think that's an important piece. We value that in nursing education, period. I think across the board you're going to get major respect with your peers and your faculty. So we need that. I guess that's the long and the short of it. We need people to come in in nursing school with experience. I was talking with somebody about and I know this is not the same, but please, please need anywhere from a minimum of 1000 to 2000 hours before they can even apply to a program.

Can you imagine? So we have a lot of people that go into programs instead of going into, you know, becoming a doctor. And it's a great route. But can you imagine they have to go work as lab techs, EMT, CNAS, they have to work in a paid position for a thousand. And some schools require 2000 hours before they can even apply or such in dire need, though for help.

It's a little different, I guess, but I do think that experience and coming in is so important.

Cara Lunsford

We are in dire need for help, but I constantly go back to the fact of like it's not help if we're not going to be able to retain them and it's not help if it's a burden on the nurses that are working because the people who come in to be support for them are not helpful. We still have to make sure that who we're bringing in is quality.

It's like access, but quality.

Kimberly Dunker

And we have to find a way to light up people and to fill them up the existing people. And, you know, I was reading today and it can't all be with food. I think that's what they think. Oh, nurses need food. Everything is all about, you know. Right. Do you not see that? Oh, let me bring in cookies or candy or pizza or whatever.

And so, you know, I have a new faculty that I just recruited, and she actually started to be a preceptor for us. And she started working with and she had a really, really tough student, really, really tough. And I thought, oh, we thought this is such a great preceptor. We're never going to she's going to walk away and you're going to preceptor for us again.

This is a senior student and no intern. It fueled her. She's like, I found out I've been a nurse for over 15 years. I'm burned out. I needed something different. And now she's a clinical instructor for me and she's thinking about doing her master's. And she's like, I just didn't even know that I needed a change because I'm making good money, I'm raising a family, I'm doing what I'm supposed to do.

I'm working my two or whatever, three shifts a week. But I think sometimes we need to stop and say work life balance, how do I make myself happy? And that self-care becomes really important. So that is something that nursing schools, we are trying now to help infuse in our curriculum a lot more about. What does that look like for you?

We give and give and give and we're women, a lot of us, and we give and we don't stop and say, Wait a second, my bucket is empty. I got nothing here. I'm on fumes. Well, what does this look like? It could be something different for everyone. What self-care for you might be different than me. I'm coaching or helping coaching my daughter's basketball team and it's busy.

We're in basketball season, we're in tournament, it's busy. And people say, How do you do it? I said, This refuels me. It forces me to have something scheduled that I have to step away from and not look at my emails and my phones and answer calls. And I'm engaged with my kid in a different way because I don't know about you, but we're I'm on all the time.

I'm always on my phone till late at night, in bed, looking at it, processing, getting back to people, following up. And I just think we're just so connected all the time, you know? So again, it goes back to you have education. We want to take care of our new grads. But that educator is such an important person to work closely with this staff and the manager, and may be that in some hospitals the manager is the educator.

I mean, with the way hospitals cut, that's the heartbeat that gets cut is education. But whoever it is running that unit or that floor, you know, has to be a leader. They have to be in tune with what their staff needs. I think so often we just don't think anybody cares. So we just stuff it, stuff it, stuff it.

And then we either quit, we change our job or we're just angry all the time.

Cara Lunsford

Yeah, you are dependent on the institution to provide you with these things. And if you don't have them every single day that you come to work, you are playing Russian roulette with your license, with your patient's life, with your mental health. Preparing these nurses and correct me if I'm wrong, a big part of being successful through nursing school, through the nursing profession.

Yes, self care, professional boundaries, having all of that, but also really recognizing when you need to say no and you need to move to another place and you say this is not safe. I'm not just going to be slow boiled over time. What are some of the things that you think that they should be looking out for when they're trying to see What's the right place for me?

What are some stuff that you would recommend that they look for?

Kimberly Dunker

Well, as hard as it is, I always say, you know, you're not going to go wrong, honestly, with a a state school or a school that, you know, is receiving some kind of state funding like a community college. And so people say, should I go there? Should I? You should always try because it's not that costly. And you get supplements and, you know, the quality is going to be there.

I mean, to be honest, it has to be there. You wouldn't get state funding. You're always wanted. Then look at accreditation is the program accredited? Because there's a lot of programs, especially two year tech programs, that are not accredited. And that lack of accreditation means something. And for a student that knows nothing about nursing school, it means that the exact same thing you were operating without a standard and faculty resources and support for the student and outcomes and your outcomes.

And so a lot of people say, well, I look on the website and they have a good board pass rate. That is a really great thing to look at. But the next question you should ask that enrollment counselor or the admission counselor, whoever you're talking to is how many students entered and how many students did you graduate? Because if you entered 100 students and they were so focused on that board pass rate that only 25 or 30 students graduated, that tells you your attrition is very high.

So that school, especially unaccredited schools, are going to weed you out because they have to protect that standard, that outcome. But to get federal financial dollars and accreditation, you also are accountable to your retention numbers. So you should ask that question. I think so often the consumer of nursing schools look at say, oh, they have 100% board pass rate.

To me, that would be a red flag. As a student, I'd be like, whoa, they have 100% pass rate. How many people do they have to weed out to get to that? And I wouldn't have known that as a new student. You want to pick a school if you have the luxury to pick, right? That can answer that.

But I think so often consumers are at the mercy of the schools that are not accredited. So if you are going to go that route and you have no other choice because maybe you didn't get good grades in high school, maybe you don't have good transfer of credit in terms of your GPA isn't high enough that follows you, unfortunately.

You know, I know people who say I didn't do well in my sciences. I had to retake all that follows you. And if you are ending up at the doorsteps at an unaccredited or a for profit institution, make sure that you have a plan. If it's a two year program, they have a plan for you to graduate. And a lot of those programs have agreements with our into BS programs that are accredited, make sure that they have that plan so that by the time you get done with your bachelors, you leave with an accredited school.

And that is important. If you want to go on to graduate school that you have to. And sometimes we don't know that, you know, we start out and we say, I'm getting my associate degree and I'm never going back to school. But then we find ourselves doing our our into BS and then we find ourselves, oh, maybe I'll get a master's.

So we don't know where life is going to take us. So you want to always have insurance on your education?

Cara Lunsford

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Christian Franz

Oh, I think that's a big thing that I want to talk about is maintaining that balance between school and your life outside of school. Because nursing school in itself is a full time job and just like any job, it's not just physical that's involved, it's also emotional. There's so much emotions put into nursing school. There's a lot of mental struggles that goes on with You can't understand that every lecture, you can't ace every exam, you can't please every clinical instructor, but you can get quote unquote, understanding patients in clinicals.

There's always new battle in nursing school every single time. And if your life is just all about nursing school and that expense amount of time, you tend to lose yourself, you lose track of the life around you. There is a world outside of nursing school that's happening at the same exact time, right? We have families, we have friends and we can make new friends in nursing school and spend time with them outside of school.

I think training support system is indispensable when it comes to nursing school because you're in this daily struggle, a daily wire where there's a lot of demands. You always have to get this school or you can't go below this minimum score. You have to finish these chapters. You have to understand these concepts for the next exams. And there's a lot of new in system how you can go about that.

Logistics. So when it comes to schooling itself, knowing your learning style, there are things in there, things that you can control, like the things you can control. It's like how this professor will create the exam, how your final grade will be in most cases with patients. She'll get in clinicals. But the things you can control is how can they navigate learning style?

So I can be successful? The way you learn more by reading words or by watching videos or by listening, listening to audiobooks and podcasts and lectures. So those things you can control try to control them so that you have even more control in other aspects of your life during nursing school, like going out with your friends. Because I know that reading X amount of chapters in a day is not really helping me.

I'm just reading it just to see that I read it and to tick off a box or listen to lectures at two times. B Just so I can say that I finish listening to them, I will have to spend more time the coming days and weeks trying to relearn all of that because I've been learning the way I should be, learning in my learning style.

And because of that, I double the time I was studying and they decrease the amount of time when I can be going out with friends and doing my things outside of school. So I think the crux of it all is finding, navigating and identifying who you are as a person. And that encompasses how you learn, how you relax, how you decompress.

And I think when you tie all of that together, you realize that, oh, I can actually manage several things at the same time, because when you become a registered nurse, you're not just a nurse, you are a family person. You have friends at school, you have to do this and you have to do that. I think that's one big piece of information that I say.

Kimberly Dunker

To, Oh, we get so excited about. I'm going in her school. Oh my gosh, I got to get into nursing school. It is so hard. 65,000 students didn't get into nursing school last year. That applied. That's a huge number. So we know there's waitlists. Even with the number of students not applying, it's still a lot of people aren't getting it.

And we know there is a business model where people are capitalizing on that. So be smart and ask the right questions. Like I said, just don't just worry about the end clerk's rate, although that's important. I'm not saying that. But what were the standards to get you there?

Cara Lunsford

Yeah, because the class is something that I would assume and maybe I'm wrong about this, but like, I don't think that they've really adjusted the RN clerks necessarily to be more accommodating. It's kind of like if you come out of like Bob's School for Nursing, you're taking the same and clerks that many of us have been taking for years.

Is it still the same type of.

Kimberly Dunker

April 20, 23, April 1st? It's all changing and it's all next gen. So if you're in academia, you know this, it's been coming for a while, but what they've done is it's they think about the same blueprint. It's that, you know, adaptive testing. However they've gone back to and people that took the and clerks before it was in clerks and it was boards and we did case studies and they answered questions.

It's going back to that model. So the case study with 15 many questions that as you think about it, the situation adjusts and changed almost like an avatar.

Cara Lunsford

Wow. I mean, that actually sounds harder. And so even more so if you're not picking a good place to go, you're going to end up taking this test that is very complex and it's going to weed out people even more so. And now you're going to be stuck with student loan debt and no license. So do your homework.

Kimberly Dunker

Pay attention, because this is going to change. So if you're thinking to apply nursing school, I would almost say, you know, wait and see where it is. But if you don't want to wait, there's quality nursing programs out there. Find out what do they do to ensure quality. And if they're accredited, they have to do that as part of their accreditation.

Cara Lunsford

Tell me some of the accreditations that they're looking for.

Kimberly Dunker

Ehsan Winchester, the analyst. And then you also have CNNI. So those are the two nursing accreditations that you want to find out. And usually the two year programs are Asian and four year programs are going to be your candy and your master's programs. And schools pay money to go through an accreditation process to have a reviewer come and give you that certification that said, yes, you've met all this.

You are an excellent program. You know, you have all of that. You need to be successful. That is a big deal. And that's different than your Board of nursing Accreditation. Board of Nursing. You have to have that to be in nursing school. But just because you have your board in nursing, does it mean you have the separate accreditation?

And then the other accreditation that every school has to have is your like your wa osc, your ni ask your school accreditation and that allows you to get federal financial aid because our schools that if they don't have that, you can't get federal financial aid and some of the newer for profit schools. You know that is a question to ask like you said, do your homework, ask good questions, and always if it looks too good to be true, it generally is.

If you applied to a nursing school and your GPA is 2.8 and every other school you saw was 3.0, but suddenly you see the school pop up and it's like 02.7 is the admission criteria guaranteed. With a low admission criteria, they will weed the students out.

Cara Lunsford

I think that that's Bob's nursing school criteria. I'm actually pretty sure I saw that.

Kimberly Dunker

It's true, though. It's true. And that goes back into just, you know, big circle, the ethical component. You know, if you want to be a nurse, I want to help you figure that out. But find the right school, find the right fit and ask good questions.

Cara Lunsford

Yes, absolutely. Kimberly, thank you so much for being here with me. I really really enjoyed every second with you.

Kimberly Dunker

Yeah, same here. And I'm glad we were able to do this. This was really great. Thanks.

Cara Lunsford

I'll see you soon. So if you are a nurse who enjoyed this episode and you have an idea for future episodes, you can connect with me by downloading the nurse dot com app. See you there.