Episode 1: Healthcare Realism in Media

Cara Lunsford (00:01.032)  

Oh wow, this is cool. Wow. Look at this framing. I know. did that. did that. I did that. That looks good. No, it does look good. It's like there's a real window here. I know. So these pick up pretty well. What do you think? Yeah, no, they pick up really well. So like you don't even have to like you don't even have to like talk into the mic like this because these yeah, these are like legit mics. I know. I know they're really nice. Yeah. You're cupping it. 

cup. Be gentle. gentle. Be gentle with it. never done this before. You know, JJ, you shouldn't just like lob stuff like that to me. I was a bounce pass. That felt like one of those things where you're like, 

Maybe maybe on another podcast. Not this podcast. Sorry. OK. This this is our very first. OK, first of all, it's our first in person first in person. OK, we did another podcast. We've done actually a couple together. A lot of fun. Yeah, it's fun. And this is the first time. So we're going to be co-hosting a 

Couple of podcasts. Co-hosting a couple. Yes, six. Six episodes. Six episodes. Yes, I'm excited. I'm excited to be here. Thank you, Kara. Okay, well, you have to introduce yourself because some people may not know who you are. Okay. So go ahead and introduce yourself. Introduce myself? Yeah, introduce yourself right now to the audience. Hi, everybody. Hi, nurse.com. My name is Joe Sell. I'm so excited to be here. 

Cara Lunsford (01:59.598) 

I'm a nurse, I'm a speaker and entrepreneur and content curator. And I used to be an ER nurse and now I talk about being an ER nurse. You're not actually doing it. I'm not an ER nurse anymore. okay. That's okay. don't have, I mean, sometimes you have so much, you just get enough under your belt that you've got like a lot of content. Yeah. Yeah. I make content, but I've been a nurse for 10 years. I've been content creator for like eight years and I'm so happy to be here. I'm excited to talk about nursing, talk about whatever. And you're funny. You think I'm funny? 

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. My therapist said I need more external validation. So thank you. you like meaning like you need to have people like me say you're funny. Yeah. was a joke. It a joke. I'm glad you got it. I'm like, wait, what does that mean? You need more external. You are very funny and handsome. Thank you. my God. Thank you. I that. I that today. Wow. You're looking good. Your hair looks good. Thank you. I just cut it. 

I love it. Do you use one of those? What do they call them? OK, I've seen them on television. Yeah. OK, I've seen them on the gram. It's it's like a razor, but it's for people who don't have any hair on their head. yeah, I have that every day. And you do. use every day. Do you have to shave every day? I shave every day. Well, I don't have to. But then I start getting the you know, the samurai or the monks. 

Oh, oh, the monk haircut. Yeah, I didn't want that. OK, but it looks it looks good on you. Thank you. Yeah, you pull it off. Well, I you know, I only have hair on on the top of my head. It's nice. I actually have hair in the opposite place that you have hair. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. What? Yes. Do you shave these every day? No, I don't. I don't shave every day. I get I get just enough. Yeah. 

Like, I think I usually take it down to about a one. Sometimes I go down to a zero. Yeah. If I just don't want to have to do it for a little while. Yeah. Because it grows out kind of fast. but I yeah, but I'm not like balding on the sides. I just I'm not balding on the side. I just choose opposite. Exactly. 

Cara Lunsford (04:22.504) 

Okay. my God. Well, I needed that external validation too. Okay. 

Where are you going? my God, he's left. Okay. 

Cara Lunsford (04:36.773) 

I have to get a mic too. 

Can you put this on here? Yeah, absolutely. The small side up. the small side up? Small side up, like this. It's very discreet. It is very discreet. This one looks different than like the other one you had on. Yeah, the other one had better sound quality. Yeah, it should pick you up. Is that good? That's perfect. Okay, perfect. That way we both have... 

Just the more I've learned from creating content, the more content you have, like footage and the more audio footage you have, just, it makes it easier in post. Perfect. Amazing. Cool. Well, that's me and my hair. That's you and, and, your lack of your lack of hair. Okay. So we are going to talk today about, healthcare, healthcare in the media, healthcare portrayal in the media. 

And very specifically, we've identified a couple of series that that we're both watching. Yeah, we both watch. Yeah. And they're trending right now. And they're trending. Yeah. So I don't know how many of our listeners have been watching The Pitt, but I'm imagining that a lot of them are. Yeah, I think a lot of people now are watching The Pitt. Yeah, it's huge. It's everywhere. I know. Honestly, it was. 

So when I watched the first season, because now there's the second season is out. Yeah. When I watched the first season of The Pitt, the first two episodes or I think it was like the first two episodes, I was thinking, my gosh, I'm not sure that I can watch this. This is a little close to home. Yeah. super close to home. Can you tell people what The Pitt is about first? Should we talk about that? Yeah. I mean, we can definitely talk about. 

Cara Lunsford (06:37.0) 

Do you want to talk about it? Give me that long. Yeah. the is, what it's about. The Pitt is short for Pitttsburgh, the Pitttsburgh hosPittal in Pennsylvania, right? I don't know if it's a real hosPittal, but it's like that one show 24, right? 24. I don't even know that show. You don't know 24. So 24 was a very popular show because every hour 

was an episode. okay, actually I do. This is old. That's an old show. Okay, yes, yes, yes. I do remember this. that concept and put that hour in the hosPittal setting in a trauma center, level one, I'm assuming, that every hour in real life is an actual hour in the episode. So 24 did that first. Right, yes. And so this is like 12 episodes or 13 if...

I think last time was 13. Yeah, you went into overtime. Remember, they went into like an hour or more of overtime. Yes. But it's one hour. like it'll say from seven to eight in the morning, eight to nine in the morning. it's it's amazing how they directed it. I mean, it is. I think it's one of the best medical dramas. 

that's ever been made. Best medical drama. Absolutely. I can't think of a better one. Yeah. Because it's so accurate. It's so accurate. And it's like there's so many times I was watching this show. I'm like, that's exactly how it is. That is exactly how it goes down in the ER. Like it's like it's like what you said. It's like, do I want to keep watching this? Because it just feels like I'm watching like my work being at work. Right. Yeah. Right. I know. I imagine that if you were 

actively working in a hosPittal or in an emergency room and then came home and watched the Pitt. It would be, it would just be more like, it would feel like more work. It's a little stressful. It's hella stressful. It's hella stressful watching it. found a way to keep, cause sometimes in the ER I'm on fight or flight the whole time. And they somehow were able to convey that feeling of, 

Cara Lunsford (08:55.132) 

being on edge from the beginning of the episode to the end of the episode. They're able to capture that. So props to the writers on the Pitt. I don't know how they did that. Yeah, it's it's a and also I feel like when I'm watching it, I feel a sense of validation. Validation. Yeah, I feel like someone's validating me like, my gosh, someone took the time. 

to really dig in and understand what is happening within the health systems, what's happening on the day to day, from the minute to minute. And it feels like, someone took the time to really understand and know what's happening in health care. It feels real. Do we want that, though? You think we want that? I think it's a little bittersweet. 

do we want real in the media? Because when we're watching TV, sometimes we want an escape, right? And like you said, it's a little too close to home. But on the other end, people always complain, like the other shows, it's like, that's not how like, Grey's Anatomy, like that's not how it really is. But. I don't think I really enjoyed watching. If I was gonna watch something, I wasn't usually gonna watch a medical drama. Yeah, I think it's because we're in healthcare. 

Yes. You think it's because we're on lockdown? And because oftentimes it was not, it didn't, it didn't feel real and it felt, and I was sitting there poking holes in it and I'm going, that would never happen or no one would ever say that or, and so I didn't really enjoy watching a lot of medical dramas. Right. Now I feel like I have to be in the right mindset to watch The Pitt. Yeah. But. I'm scared to watch it. 

Yeah, but when I do watch it, I at least feel like, they took the time to really get this right. Yeah, there's definitely- So I have respect for it. They put a lot of research into it, for sure, to make it as realistic as possible. Yeah, so that's the validation part that I'm talking about. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Because you feel seen as a health care worker. Yeah, absolutely. 

Cara Lunsford (11:12.1) 

So if we go, so if we go back really quickly, because you and I were looking up some different episodes, we were looking up what some of the some other influencers were talking about. We looked at Dr. Mike. Dr. Mike did an a review of an episode. I think it was season two, episode four. Season two, episode four. Yes. And I thought that one was really interesting that he reviewed that one because it was something that I thought about, too. Yeah. 

Because in that episode there is a deaf patient. A deaf patient. Yes. And so they are exploring in that episode. mean, it's not she's a part of the episode. She's not the full episode, but they really start to identify and shine a light on how it is for people who come into 

a health system and don't speak English or they have a disability. in this situation, you know, she does not obviously have the ability to speak. She's not speaking English. And she was at the mercy of having to wait for interpreters to come and. 

when they were trying to use the video relay system, because that's a system that they use in the hosPittals, is like video relay. It was like shorting out. And so they were having trouble even using like a video interpreter. Yeah, for sure. That happens. That's a real life. Probably every shift, every nurse who uses a translator goes through that where 

the technology used to do something as basic as communicate or talk to the patient is not working. Right. Right. Have you ever had a deaf person in your ER? Have you ever had that experience? Yeah, all the time. Really? Yeah. So I, not everybody knows this about me, but I, before I was a nurse, I was a sign language interpreter. really? Yeah. Sign language interpreter. Before you were a nurse? Before I was a nurse. Actually, the, I went, 

Cara Lunsford (13:36.442) 

So I went to school at a place called Venice Skill Center and I did like 1200 hours of training and then I went in and I became a an interpreter in the college like university setting. Yeah. And when I worked at Cal State Northridge I interpreted the biology of cancer class two semesters in a row. The whole class. Yeah. Yeah. For your 

I I I interpreted it like after I was an interpreter, I there was a deaf student who was taking that class. And so I interpreted that class for the full semester, two semesters in a row. That's so cool with Dr. Oppenheimer. Yeah, the doctor. The doctor. 

Cara Lunsford (14:30.695) 

The Dr. Oppenheimer? Not the Dr. Oppenheimer. Oh my God. But you know, that's pretty funny. No, I mean, his name was Dr. Oppenheimer. Oh, it was Dr. Oppenheimer. It was, but I don't think he was like the Dr. Oppenheimer. Well, you think they were related? I mean, maybe. So you interpreted two classes in a row. Two semesters. Two molecular biology? Yeah, it was the biology of cancer. So you probably learned a lot about the biology. 

I did. learned a lot. And actually that was what made me want to go in and become a nurse. Really? Yes. That's your story. That's my story. That's like, was like, you know what? I think I'm going to do nursing. Yeah. And so then I ended up going to nursing school. But all that to be said is that I really connected with this episode because I was watching. It was so painful to watch because I could see. 

how frustrated the patient was in the episode. I believe that they used a deaf actress. Yeah. And I think so. Yeah. No, I'm pretty sure they did. I think because they're so realistic. can't imagine that they would have someone come and... 

be, I don't know, don't, yes, for sure. I'm gonna like say 99 % that she was actually deaf. Yeah. It's hard to say nowadays because sometimes there is a thing where like, you need to be a certain demographic to act a certain demographic. Yeah, and it is like that in the deaf community. You don't wanna really have someone portray a deaf person. 

It's like appropriation a little bit. It's like disability appropriation. It's wild. Yeah. I don't think that's really a word, disability appropriation, but it's like, but it's like cultural appropriation. So, So when we were watching that one, know, she is definitely frustrated. The one of the things that Dr. Mike brought up, which I thought was really interesting and it was a 

Cara Lunsford (16:48.377) 

A problem that I used to have a lot when I was an interpreter was that people always wanted to talk to me instead of talking to the patient. Instead of, know, the doctor speaking directly to the patient. doctor wanted to speak directly to the interpreter. Like, can you tell her this? Tell her that I said this. And that's and and we oftentimes as interpreters, we will remind people. 

you can speak directly to the patient or you can speak directly to the person. Yeah, you still need to face the person. You still need to face the patient and talk to the patient as if you were speaking the same language. Yes. Eye contact, body language. Yes. Instead of saying, hey, do this and then just becomes and it makes the patient feel more heard too. Yeah. Because the patient already doesn't feel heard because of the language barrier. Right. Which is a basic community, you know, 

we take for granted basic communication. Yeah. I had something happen, you know, a long time ago where I was interpreting for a patient and the doctor said, you know, don't tell them what the prognosis is. Don't tell them. Like they were said to me, I'm telling you, but don't tell them. 

And I said, I cannot, no, yeah. was like, no, I cannot, that is not appropriate. Was this in front of the patient? Yes. And then when I was interpreting, so when I was interpreting it, I interpreted it exactly what the doctor was saying to me. Exactly. And so of course, like the person who was there to see the doctor was like, wait, what? What is it that you don't want to tell me? 

And then the doctor got angry at me and said, I told you not to say anything. And then I interpreted exactly that. I said, I told you not to say anything. Yes. Yes. Yes. This actually would happen a lot. Having like a this happens a lot. It's it's it's sad, but it happens a lot where it's like, don't tell them, but blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then they say something. And I'm like, no. 

Cara Lunsford (19:10.087) 

I have to say, I have to interpret every single thing you say, including what you just said, which is don't tell them. I don't understand how, why that would even happen during a translation. That's, I know, I know it's, it's, it's crazy. So anyway, that was definitely, um, that was a cool thing to, to see on the Pitt reflected that they totally got that real. Um, and then 

You were actually bringing up like a few other like not the Pitt, but let's talk a little bit about like Nurse Jackie. Oh, Nurse Jackie. I like that show. Nurse Jackie is it's not running anymore, is it? No, no, no, it's not running anymore. Nurse Jackie is the drama on HBO Showtime about the E.R. charge nurse. Right. Yeah. You're a charge nurse and she's a total badass. But Edie Falco. 

Edie Falco. Yeah, that's, that was the actress. Oh, Edie, Edie, Edie Falco. Okay. She used to be on the Sopranos Sopranos. didn't watch it. Yeah. She used to be on the Sopranos and then she got cast as nurse Jackie. I Sopranos is good. Yeah, it is. But yeah, I remember seeing it for the first time and I had worked in the ER and I was like, man, I, this is kind of similar to work. Like the, the healthcare, they got that down, but nurse Jackie's has a drug problem. What was she on? 

Well, she was well, OK. She was she was definitely on prescription meds. they weren't specific. Well, I think she was on opioids, some sort of opioid. I don't remember. Percocet. Yeah. And she was getting it like Percocet or Oxycontin. Yeah, Oxy. I it was Oxy. And then she was getting from the pharmacist who she was sleeping with, right? She was sleeping with the pharmacist and he was like her drug dealer. Yeah. So I remember in school we were reaching searching up, you know, medical dramas. 

And that one came up and nurses aren't portrayed in the media as much, but when we finally are and we, uh, realistically, right? When we were finally put on the spotlight with a legitimate show and the healthcare that pieces, they were getting right. She has to be a drug addict. I know I was, you know, what are your thoughts on that? I was a little disappointed. Here's my thing. Like you just said, 

Cara Lunsford (21:34.392) 

they've depicted doctors in the media for a really long time, whether it be in ER, scrubs, or house, or all of these different like medical dramas. And nurses have kind of been in the background, right? For sure. Not necessarily at the forefront. 

And then finally, there's like this show that comes out and it's Nurse Jackie and you're like, my gosh. Awesome. Yeah. And she's a good nurse. And you know, like honestly, she was a good nurse. Yep. She, I mean, I don't know how other people felt about her, but I felt like when I watched her, I thought, she was kind of the nurse I always like wanted to be. Yeah. Yeah. You really strong, very confident. Yeah. She knew her shit. She knew her shit. 

It's okay. I'm I'm sorry. No, you get you get at least one. I get one. Yeah, it's like PG 13. Okay. Okay. know, like, isn't it like when you when you watch like a movie and it's rated R, it's like a one f bomb, you get one f bomb. And like, if you do more than that, then all of a sudden, it's rated R. That's right. Yeah, because Avengers had one f bomb. 

Yeah, but it's so it can be PG 13 with one F bomb, but you throw you throw in more than one. Right. Rated R. It's okay. It's okay. Breathe through it. You got this. Rated R now. You only said shit. Okay. All right. I forgot what we were talking about. Oh God. Nurse Jackie. Nurse Jackie. Oh yeah. She was a total badass. Oh, and I felt like you would want her to be your nurse. 

Yeah, right. Having that portrayed in the media, that's not she was an advocate. Yeah. And it's not over sexualized. No. And you're not you know, that stereotypical blonde nurse who's wearing a sexy outfit and just super with a cap. I feel like that's what right. Right. Yeah. People see like the Halloween costume. The Halloween costume. Yeah. Yeah. There's a Halloween costume called cardiac arrest. And it's like a black 

Cara Lunsford (23:56.456) 

It's not. 1910 dress and then of course the leggings and then a hat. What? Yeah. Really? Yeah, I bought it. You did I I swear. You did not. There's a photo out there of me wearing it. How come you didn't wear that today? Should I? Oh, that I am. I am wearing it. It's under me. He's wearing it under. I did a Halloween episode video a long time ago. It like four years ago. But yeah, I bought that because I thought it was funny. 

But that's what people think of when they think of Nurse and I'm glad that Nurse Jackie finally got it right at first and then drug addict. But that goes to show what or not. it the Animaniacs that were like, Hello Nurse? Oh, that sounds like I think I just dated. I watched Animaniacs. Animaniacs. Hello Nurse. Yeah. And it's very still that's still very much the stereotype. And you can tell. Absolutely. So, yeah, it was kind of a bummer that 

once we like finally made, we had like main character energy. Main character energy for sure. And unfortunately, you know, she was a drug addict. there's also, there's more nurses, well, not more nurses, but there's more series dramas out there that are representing nurses. 

I'm gonna go back to the Pitt really quick. I also really love how they depict the charge nurse. Yeah. what was her name? I don't remember. I loved her character. Dana. Dana, thank you. Dana. I'm glad that you have like a good memory. You think so? yeah, you do. No, thank God. Because I'm terrible. Yeah, Dana was such a badass. she was so good. And there's an episode. Do you remember the episode when she gets hit in the face? Yes, yes, yeah. 

spoiler alert. sorry. Sorry. If you haven't watched it yet. Yeah. You got to go watch it. So she gets assaulted and battery. Assaulted is I don't think that's the word. It's not the word assaulted and hit because it's assault and battery, but I just don't think you say battery. I don't think so either, but I didn't know, but she gets hit and yeah, she did. She got battered. Yeah. Yeah. So they, but that 

Cara Lunsford (26:18.278) 

There you go battered. Is that where comes from? Yeah. Really? Yes. I had no clue. Yeah. Yeah. It's assault and battered. I thought it was. Well, it's assault and battery. But if you're going to say that she was battered, she was. Yeah. She was like in past tense. past tense, she was hit. Go on. So she was assault and battered. Yes. And so that that was, I felt like. 

the Pitt was taking the opportunity to highlight violence in the workplace. 100%. Right. And what we experience when we are working in the hosPittal and very specifically working in a trauma setting or yes. Absolutely. And on the daily we get exposed to violence. remember I was in the year I was a nursing student and a patient kicked me in the throat. it was just like, yeah, they were demented. 

They were demented, it was kind of like, gets so normalized. And then my nursing instructor was like, are you okay? I'm like, I'm fine. I just got kicked in the throat. And you could have gotten really injured. Yeah, right. And I didn't know, I didn't really know how to handle it. And then you just kind of just internalize it. And then you realize, especially when I started working in the ER, you you get swung at by drunk people. You get swung at by sober people. And it just, 

It becomes so normalized. And this is why I think why it's so important that they are talking about this in in the media and and not when I say the media, I'm not talking about the news. Obviously, I'm talking about like dramatized media shows like what we're talking about. But that. 

It's making the general population aware of problems that we face. I agree with that. I agree with that. there's also one thing I wanted to touch on related to that. And it goes to going back to what we talked about earlier. A lot of shows are escape, right? So we expect it not to be real. Like Nurse Jackie, not all nurses are drug dealers, right? 

Cara Lunsford (28:35.938) 

So it's like what, how, drug dealers. mean, maybe she's not all this like drug takers. We're drug givers. Yes. Yes. We give the drugs, but not everyone's drug addicts. That's what I Thank you for calling me on that. but there is a element of like, how real do we want it to be? And although the Pitt is super real and anything of those can really happen at any second in real life. 

Yeah. I've seen some comments online like, the Pitt so dramatic. None of that can really happen in real life. It's like, what? Is that coming from like just general like lay people? I think so. I think so. But people don't know that. that that's how it actually is. Because, you know, Grey's Anatomy, how much sex is there, right? There's not that much sex in the hosPittals as Grey's Anatomy. No. 

But there's not enough time. I never understood like how they they were like people were going in closets and stuff like that. I mean, I think that does happen for sure. Night shift. Night shift. But I'm just saying, I mean, it probably is. Yes, for sure it's happening, but not to like the level or the degree. Right. Like they're always going to dramatize it. They're always going to show. Yes. Yes, of course. But the Pitt is so hyper realistic. Yeah. 

So it's like, do you, where's the line? That's why I was asking you earlier, how real do we want it to be? The Pitt is real. The Pitt is real, especially with the, I don't want to do any spoilers, but the last, know, the big events. yes, yes, yes. are like, that's so dramatic. I'm like, yeah, it can happen at any moment. No, but that can happen. Any moment. Yes. I definitely recommend that people watch it. And I think if you're not in the healthcare space and you're listening to this episode, 

I do think that it's important for people to understand that this is very, it is very realistic and that have like, I think if anything, I would hope that people would have more compassion for people in the healthcare space and that they could understand what stuff. 

Cara Lunsford (30:53.774) 

might be like behind the scenes? Yes, what goes on outside of that? Outside of the patient room? Yes. What is going on? What other things could be happening that could be delaying their care? Yeah. Right? Yes. And why trying to be as patient as possible? Yes, as patient as possible. And I think outside of this, the bigger theme is you're putting, you're shedding light on what the health care system is actually like. Yeah. Right. It's not the doctor's fault. 

It's not the patient's fault. It's not the patient's needs fault. It's not the nurse's fault. It's the system that really doesn't have the patient in its best interest. And that's why the patients are unhappy, the patients are unhealthy, the nurses are unhealthy and unhappy, the doctors are unhealthy and happy, and the administration just comes around yapping. And complaining. Right, yeah. It's like that's how it is. And when the layperson can see that and just like, it's not. 

You know, it's not my nurse, you know, it's the system that's messed up. Then they can finally see like, it's this system is super wrapped up. Yeah. And I think that's what we need to see more in many different ways, whether it's through social media, whether it's through the Pitt. It's like it's the system that's messing us up. It is a system. And and and so I and so for that reason, think we do have to like welcome as much media as possible. Yeah. 

And and hopefully they are taking the time to do all of that research and to have those consultants in the mix when they're planning out these these different episodes. And so that was that was really exciting to to see that displayed in that way for with the Pitt. But I also want to say 

that there's, I mean, there's definitely some other shows out there. Well, for example, we talked about Nurse Ratched. Now, thing is neither one of us have seen it. I've never seen Nurse Ratched. That's an actual show? Yes. Yeah, it's an actual show. I didn't know that. And it's based off of a character. Yeah. Who came, well, okay. So I think she was originally in a book. Uh-huh. Okay. And then that book was made into a movie. Yeah. 

Cara Lunsford (33:22.438) 

which was One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. And that was a movie that came out in the 1970s. In the 70s, okay. Yes. And that's a really famous movie. And I'm so sad to say that I also have not seen it. You haven't seen it. And it's kind of a classic. Is it a classic? Yes. Oh yeah. We gotta watch it then. Yeah, I know, we have to watch it. What's it about? Well, I think it's about a man. 

It's a man in a psychiatric hosPittal. And, and this nurse who is depicted in one flew over the cuckoo's nest. Her name is, well, they call her nurse ratchet. And she uses like medications and psychological manipulation to like control the patients. 

She's not a nice person. She's a villain? Yeah, I mean, and then they made a show off that. So then they did a spin off of that character on Netflix, right? I think it's on Netflix. I don't know. Okay. They made a spin off of her character. Yeah. So they made a spin off of her character and then the spin off is nurse ratchet is called nurse ratchet. So it was just about her. Yes. Is she a good person? Oh, you don't know. no. I think she's not. She's evil. 

Yeah, she's not a she's like psychologically manipulating. OK, so that's why when people I hear people say nurse ratchet, it's negative. Yes, it's a negative connotation. So you say, oh my gosh, the nurse that was taking care of me was like a nurse ratchet. Like like that is a negative connotation. OK, so again, it goes back to like we don't have a lot of like positive. Yeah. We're not positive portrayals. No, we don't have a lot of positive portrayals. Yes, we do not. I agree. 

We're either nurse ratchet style or hypersexual. Yeah. Or hypersexualized or nurse Jackie. We're a stereotype. We're very quickly stereotype. Yes. And especially as some as a male in the field, it's like, oh, they're like, oh, you're a male nurse. People are like, oh, that's kind of weird. They don't say that per se, but they're like, because some sometimes some people aren't. What's the movie? OK, what's the movie? Oh, Meet the Parents. Yes. Yes. That probably you're a male nurse. 

Cara Lunsford (35:49.927) 

What I liked about that one is they were pushing against that stereotype, right? Yes. Well, he was. Stiller. He was, yeah. But, you know, obviously Robert De Niro in that film was like very much like masculine alpha male and like making fun of him being a male nurse, right? Yes. Yeah, that's... What is he talking about? Remember when he said like, when he asked about like the nipples? I have nipples, Greg. That's right. Can you milk me? Can you milk me? 

That's one of the best lines. That's such a good line. my god, it's so good. Yeah, so you're right. There's not a lot of really good portrayals, whether you're talking about a male nurse, or when it comes to female nurses, we've got somebody who is a drug addict. feel like drug addict, that's probably not the correct term, right? Is it? 

No, there's no way we're eliminating that word too. That's not politically correct anymore? Drug addict? I feel like it's not. What is the term Substance abuse disorder. 

Cara Lunsford (37:02.702) 

I mean, I think I'm just going to like, I mean, I'm just going to say because it will probably I don't want to get called out on it. I mean, I we're saying like, you know, if you're addicted to substances, addicted to substances, substance abuse disorder, think it's a substance abuse disorder. Right. It's kind of like an eating disorder. Right. If you have an eating disorder because drug addict, you're actually labeling the person as opposed to saying that they have like a disorder. 

or that they're afflicted with something. It's like a person with autism as opposed to an autistic person. I didn't know that one either. I starting to think, I was like, think we're not saying this right. No, it's important to like, we have to like, know, awareness. 100%. Yeah. I think that Nurse Jackie clearly has a substance abuse disorder. 

and but that she was a good person. She's 100 % good person. Yeah. And she was somebody we would want to be like, but yeah. So that goes to show just because someone has a substance abuse disorder doesn't mean they're a bad person. I feel like those go ahead and sometimes. Yes, of course not. Like she, this was something that, and it, again, this is a real life scenario, right? Because like there are a lot of nurses and healthcare providers. 

that lean on substances. Yes. Legal or not legal, right? Legal or not legal to numb or to self-medicate. Coat. Or to coat. Yes. OK. So it's not like, yes, it feels like a negative portrayal, but it also is a very realistic thing. Yes. Actually, I'm glad you brought that up. Yeah. Because even though it might feel bad, it still is. 

an actual problem. Yeah. And the Pitt actually tackled that too. Oh, yeah, they did. That's right. That's right. I That was a plot twist. Spoiler alert. we won't tell them. OK, we won't say who. Yeah, we won't say who. OK, we're not going to say who. But yeah, they tackle the whole idea of having access. Yes. Right. Because that's the other thing. It would be like if you're a bartender. Yeah. And you have a lot of access to alcohol. Yeah. It would not be so far fetched. 

Cara Lunsford (39:29.968) 

to think that someone might develop a problem or a substance abuse problem. Alcohol use disorder. Alcohol use disorder with, you know, if they had so much access to alcohol. Cause you're around it. Yeah, you're around it. But honestly, yes, you have access and I think doctors can get would if, I don't know, if they can prescribe, I don't know they can prescribe themselves, but I feel like the Pyxis or the OmniCell is so like, 

You know what I mean? like, is, but it's hard to get away with it. But I know people still do it. It's hard to get away with it, but there's times where, uh, healthcare providers have taken the drugs from the patient. instead of giving it to the patient, just, so that's like, if you pull out a vial from the pixis, I mean, we're hoping that you, that the minister. 

the nurse would be or the doctor would be administering that to the patient. Yeah. But there have been situations where they just pull up some saline and they give saline to the patient and they take the med themselves. Drug diversion like that literally gives me a visceral reaction, you know, because you're robbing your patient of that, whatever they need. I mean, there's so many layers there and also 

Cara Lunsford (40:53.551) 

Yeah, it's just, I can't even imagine doing that. Just, that really, I mean, it's just because that's why it's an illness, right? Yeah. Like, that's why it's a disorder, because it clouds your judgment. Yeah. And that's why you're, you know, these people are not, they're not bad people, but they are, they have developed such a dependence. Yeah. On these drugs. These substances. These substances that. 

the idea of going into withdrawal or losing your job or losing your license. So the name of the program that a lot of nurses go through if they do have a substance abuse disorder is Diversion. Isn't that the name of the program? Diversion program? I don't know. But I know in healthcare as long as you own up to it and you 

try to change, I think it's very forgiving. The Board of Registered Nursing will put you through a program. there are like if you get stopped for driving drunk or something like that, driving while intoxicated, there, yes, you can lose your license, but I think they really try to put you through and I'm 

I could be saying this wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's called the diversion program. We should look it up. Do you want to look it up? This is why we have the computer. We have a computer. We put the computer here for a reason. But I know. Yeah, I know they're very check case by case basis for sure. OK. JJ, fact check us. Yeah. What is the name of the program? What is the name of the program provided by the Board of Registered Nursing provided by the BRN for? 

substance abuse. 

Cara Lunsford (42:44.399) 

What is the name of the program provided by the BRN for substance abuse? And the answer is intervention program. Really? Yeah. It's really called the intervention program? where did I get diversion? right there. no, it is called the diversion program. Now established the diversion program. 

intervention program. Okay, so they changed it. Yeah, so in 1984. This means I've been a nurse for 18 years. 18 years? 18 years. In 1984, state law California, because California forever. The state law established a diversion program now known as the intervention program as an alternative to discipline. Okay, cool. Yes. Yeah, they don't they they really want to encourage people to get help. Yeah. And not hide it. Not hide the problem. Yes. 

Totally would that. So I definitely feel like we've got some really good examples of nurses in the media and doctors in the media. think health care in the media, we have some really good examples. Yeah. And I don't even want to say that like the examples that we have of nurses are completely bad. I just think that 

when you're going to dramatize something, of course they're going to pick something that's going to be extreme. Extreme. Yeah. It's because it's at the end of the day, it's Hollywood. Yeah, it's Hollywood. Exactly. So and it's not far fetched. OK. Like these are things that like really happen. The last one I was going to ask you about and this is kind of like a throwback a little bit throwback. 

So they did the good nurse. The good nurse. Did you ever watch? I did not watch. Tell me about it. my gosh. OK, so I did an episode on this. The very first episode of, think, season two of Nurse Dot. Yeah. I think it's our season two. When was season two? Was it our finale or was it our first? I think it might have been our finale for season one, actually. 

Cara Lunsford (45:00.323) 

was I interviewed Amy Laughlin who was the actual good nurse. okay. But this was the story of Charles Cullen who was responsible for killing upwards of 400 patients. my God. And Netflix did a movie about it called The Good Nurse and Amy Laughlin is portrayed by 

Jessica Chastain and Charles Cullen is portrayed by Eddie Redmayne. I didn't watch it. Okay, tell me more. It's really, really good. It sounds disturbing. It's super disturbing. I'm not a fan disturbing, but it's disturbing because what they are highlighting and here's what I'm glad that they highlighted was that the health care system kept 

They started to know what was happening. They started to know what this guy was doing. instead of reporting it and getting him put away like they should have, they passed him along from one institution to another institution because they didn't want to take the liability when they started to realize what what was happening and that there were these deaths and that they started suspecting. 

that he was to blame for these deaths. Instead, they just let him go and in some situations even gave him like a positive referral to like the next hosPittal that he went to. Also, they could just like save their own keystone. Yeah, because that'd be bad for publicity. Well, yeah. And imagine if the families of those patients came back and sued the hosPittal for what? 

for what he did. Yeah. And so for wrongful death. Yeah. Wrongful death. Right. So so it definitely highlighted. So speaking of health care in the media, it definitely highlighted what happens in some situations and maybe to some extreme. But he ended up he probably got access to 

Cara Lunsford (47:27.365) 

way more patients than he should ever have gotten access to because they didn't stop him earlier. It was a broken system. Yeah. And actually when he got caught, so Amy Laughren, who's the real good nurse, she got, she was friends with him. She didn't know obviously what he was doing. And when she became aware of what he was doing, she was responsible for getting him to confess. 

to it. she's a good nurse because she well, yeah. And so she got him to she ended up working undercover for the police department. She actually got him down. She Yeah. Yes. And to take him down. And then she got him to confess to the murders. And so now so he's in prison to this day. Whoo. I know. That's why I remember now that you mentioned it. I remember hearing about that back in 2022. And I remember thinking I mean, like 

Here's another excuse for the public to not trust us. I know. I remember specifically thinking that. Yeah. And it is scary because you think like and and more so it's not that yes, there could be bad people in any profession, any profession. And that's, you know, obviously scary for the public to think of that. But even more of a reason why. 

the healthcare institutions have to be responsible when they find something, when they discover something is a rye. I feel like also nurses are put on higher standards and higher pedestal. So when people come in, because we're talking about nurses being human and we make mistakes, the UI, substance abuse programs, second chances, I feel like sometimes the public isn't as lenient with us. 

I feel like when they go into these hosPittals, they expect a certain type of service and they expect a certain type of attitude. And if, if it falls one point short, they might leave us a bad review. And if they leave us a bad review, guess who's on our asses. Yeah. Administration, right? Because they want those good reviews. So I think it, it's kind of unfair because we're seen as, you know, we're getting called angels all the time, superheroes all the time, but 

Cara Lunsford (49:51.854) 

on the same token when we show our humanity. We're just human. Yeah, we I feel like we're not as given as much leeway as an angel would or as a superhero would. Yeah. Yeah. I think that comes with a profession. I don't think it's necessarily fair. Yeah. That that being treated as human. I think that's what we all want. Right. We all want to be treated as as as human, not superhuman. Yeah. 

And it's kind of what we fought for for a really long time and and the reason why people like we're seeing strikes and things like that. Yeah, a lot of burnout. So. Well, I mean, this I feel like this is really like fun and exciting. And I I I loved digging into like healthcare in the media. And I think that if anyone who's listening to this, who has, you know, your own ideas, your 

own comments. You can certainly come to nurse.com. can find this episode. always do, every episode we always do a post for it. And JJ is going to be doing posts. He's going to be doing some posts as well. And so you can always come and find us and you can comment. Let us know what your favorite part was. Yeah. What part resonated with you most. Absolutely. 

Is there any other shows that you think we should have been talking about? What did we miss? Let us know. I'm sure we missed a few things, but there's so much out there. Yeah, definitely. But this is going to be so fun. This is our first one together. First episode in our in our little like home, like a little set, little studio. And and I loved this. I loved being with you. Yeah, I loved it, too. I'm excited to be here. Excited for more episodes. Five more. 

Five more? Hopefully there's gonna be more than that. Five more, let us know what you want us to talk about. Absolutely. All right. Peace out. Love you all. Nurse.com. 2026. What are we? What season are we? Season eight. See, they're gonna bleep. Oh my gosh, eight. They can audio. Is this actually eight? Oh my God, it's eight. Okay. Season eight. They can just put that in. Bye everyone. 

Cara Lunsford (52:17.849) 

Bye. 

We did it! Let's do that whole pretend to talk to each other while the... you know like after channel 5 evening news 

Cara Lunsford (52:39.183) 

Woo! We did it! We did it!